Primary school shenanigans

[ZedLeg]

As for accepting atheists, my Twitter stream this weekend included 2 different atheists telling me that I'm being an atheist wrong, repeatedly shouting at me that gods don't exist (despite me saying the same thing), and calling for the absolute banning of all religions. Apparently some people really don't understand that you can be an atheist whilst still being tolerant of other people's views (up to a point, I'll add even though I shouldn't have to but otherwise someone will use it as a strawman argument)

Just as an aside while you breathe and count to, say, 100, what is your version of atheism? It sounds like mine - I don't believe in God or any god, but if other people do, that's fine. I don't try and change their mind and they don't try and change mine.

Same?

(I will admit to when asked if I'm religious, I say no I'm not, due to not being a fucking simpleton - I also don't believe in Father Christmas or the Easter Bunny, for example - but that's just for my own personal amusement.)

Same views as me, although I'm loath to refer to myself as an Athiest as you tend to get lumped in with shouty wankers on the internet.

[ZedLeg]

We're on exactly the same page - Richard Dawkins is a fucking cunt. Just as bad, if not worse, than the sky-fairy brigade.

Definitely worse than most, he mixes a healthy measure of intellectual bullying into his zealotry if you don't agree with him.

[Nefarious]

Nobody in this country is made to go to a church school. Everyone is there by choice or due to apathy.

Only a few years ago, the choices in my catchment area were catholic school or CoS school. So, really my choices were pick a side or be excluded from mainstream education.

Now, the CoS school is officially a non-denominational one (although they are still basically CoS), so I have a choice of one school in my catchment area instead of two. Is that fair?

[JLv3.0]

We're on exactly the same page - Richard Dawkins is a fucking cunt. Just as bad, if not worse, than the sky-fairy brigade.

Definitely worse than most, he mixes a healthy measure of intellectual bullying into his zealotry if you don't agree with him.

Dawkins has a conviction in his opinions to an extent that is pretty much only comparable to religious zealotry. Ironic, eh.

[NotoriousREV]

Nobody in this country is made to go to a church school. Everyone is there by choice or due to apathy.

Only a few years ago, the choices in my catchment area were catholic school or CoS school. So, really my choices were pick a side or be excluded from mainstream education.

Now, the CoS school is officially a non-denominational one (although they are still basically CoS), so I have a choice of one school in my catchment area instead of two. Is that fair?

I had a choice of sending my 13 year old to 3 local high schools: 1 in special measures, 2 in Needs Improvement so I ended up sending him to a school outside of the area. Is that fair?

[ste]

We have representation on the school governing board by the church.

I recently insisted that they amend some school survey to offer 'no religion' as an option amongst the various religions they listed. Genuinely, some grown adults from the church didn't understand this. Surely you're one religion or another right? One woman actually sneered at me and said "I'm quite sure there are no devil worshippers in this village!" "No not them... as they do have a religion". Blank look back.

[NotoriousREV]

We're on exactly the same page - Richard Dawkins is a fucking cunt. Just as bad, if not worse, than the sky-fairy brigade.

Definitely worse than most, he mixes a healthy measure of intellectual bullying into his zealotry if you don't agree with him.

Dawkins has a conviction in his opinions to an extent that is pretty much only comparable to religious zealotry. Ironic, eh.

My Twitter argument on this subject was basically over my use of the term "belief system" to describe atheism. Hoo boy, did that make them angry.

[Nefarious]

OK, I'm going to try one more time.

What if we were talking about healthcare instead of education?

Would it be acceptable to you that 50% of hospitals took public funding, but were only willing to treat patients of a particular faith? Would it be acceptable to insist that patients treated at those hospitals actively took part in religious rituals as part of their treatment?

[ste]

Nobody in this country is made to go to a church school. Everyone is there by choice or due to apathy.

Only a few years ago, the choices in my catchment area were catholic school or CoS school. So, really my choices were pick a side or be excluded from mainstream education.

Now, the CoS school is officially a non-denominational one (although they are still basically CoS), so I have a choice of one school in my catchment area instead of two. Is that fair?

2 organisations have offered a facility to educate your child in the place where you have chosen to live. Unless you're providing alternative arrangements I'm not sure whose fault it is but yours that your child will attend one of those facilities.

Also, who mentioned fair? Since when was society fair? Move to China or North Korea, it's fair there.

[NotoriousREV]

OK, I'm going to try one more time.

What if we were talking about healthcare instead of education?

Would it be acceptable to you that 50% of hospitals took public funding, but were only willing to treat patients of a particular faith? Would it be acceptable to insist that patients treated at those hospitals actively took part in religious rituals as part of their treatment?

This is the worst analogy ever.

[Nefarious]

OK, I'm going to try one more time.

What if we were talking about healthcare instead of education?

Would it be acceptable to you that 50% of hospitals took public funding, but were only willing to treat patients of a particular faith? Would it be acceptable to insist that patients treated at those hospitals actively took part in religious rituals as part of their treatment?

This is the worst analogy ever.

Dreadfully sorry. Glad you were here to put me in my place.

[ste]

OK, I'm going to try one more time.

What if we were talking about healthcare instead of education?

Would it be acceptable to you that 50% of hospitals took public funding, but were only willing to treat patients of a particular faith? Would it be acceptable to insist that patients treated at those hospitals actively took part in religious rituals as part of their treatment?

This is a real situation and happens.

To flip your argument around. There's 1 hospital and it can't meet demand, everyone recieves a poor service.

An organisation pays to build another hospital and gives it an entry criteria. They treat some patients and reduce demand on the pre-existing hospital. Is this acceptible or should everybody have the same rights to the same treatment at all times?

PS - The real situation with hospitals is way more fucked up than a silly religion scenario.

PPS - one of my last jobs I worked with the dept for Education I now work at the NHS.

[PreacherCain]

I had years of compulsory chapel at school (which has stood me in good stead for decades of harmless fun winding up the God Squad ever since) and that hasn't had much impact on my belief system: I remain a militant fundamentalist agnostic, albeit with liberal leanings - people can worship whatever and whomever they please, as long as they don't judge me for thinking them weird.

I do find it odd that schools put church attendance in their selection criteria, though - surely they know that will lead to empty, transactional attendance? If they were really in the business of saving souls, why are these religious groups not setting the "prove you're one of us" bar much higher? After all, an omniscient God will be well aware that the Thompsons from number 17 are only there on Sunday morning so that little Johnny has a chance of a decent education, and as I recall He had some choice words for the hypocrisy of lip-service.

My conclusion therefore is that the attendance thing is a sop, a plastic obeisance to the school's soi-disant "religious" status rather than any attempt to determine whether a family's faith is genuine. Perhaps it is simply an advanced attempt to troll hardline athesists?

[NotoriousREV]

We played a blinder. We went to church on the first day a new vicar started and MrsREV pretended we were regulars and made him sign the form. Never went again, got the second child into the school based on the sibling thing. It's a good job there's no hell.

[Simon]

This thread should be in the moaning forum.

[NotoriousREV]

This thread should be in the moaning forum.

You moaning about this should be in the Moaning forum.

[McSwede]

Well I finally think I am becoming an adult

Our eldest luckily got our first choice primary school which we are very pleased with. The area we moved into has 3 well regarded primary schools which is partly the reason we bought the house but getting first pick was nice.

It has though opened up my eyes to a whole world of strange that I never thought would bother me but it has.

Primary schools be crazy

Primary school 1, it’s a CofE school, good ofsted, well regarded and a friend has wanted their child to go there for a long time. You need to show you regularly attend the local church etc to be able to get a place as this massively helps with the selection process. Turns out the front desk people make the average doctors surgery receptionist look like a angel of love and compassion. The church they were told to attend and was linked with the school, a year of hassle going to a church further away and all that entails was pointless and they could have instead gone to their local one. No reasoning given, just blunt answers and bureaucracy.

School 2, great offsted, amazing facilities, music and media department which are ridiculously good. The headmaster was a bit up himself and I got a bad vibe so wasn’t sure. He is now suspended after a huge bed swapping problem at the school and mis-conduct. Also quite a few instances of people being pushed aside for strange reasons. A friends wife being one of them.

School number 3 needed a freshen up, facilities not that great but an honest account of the pupils work both from the gifted and not so gifted. Also the headmaster knew every single child’s name and commanded respect. I felt like I needed to watch what I did in case I got a dressing down. Ex private school head of 10 years who he admitted wanted a challenge and expects to run the best primary school in our area in a few short years.

Already seeing and hearing the grumblings of friends and nursery folk about the school system. It’s quite strange feeling so strongly when before I would have been happy with anywhere as long as it was walkable each day.

Now I look forward to the schoolyard rumours and if our youngest gets in the same preschool, the £1200 a month better off we will be

Anyone else going through the school situation this year ?

Dave!

Yes, we are.

Daughter has been going to a Montessori Pre-School (fantastic!) and goes to Primary school in September so we have just found out that she has been accepted into our first choice school. Where we are in North Yorkshire we seem to be spoiled for choice of good schools. We picked from four within a 10 min drive. All CofE and all small village schools. Religious belief was not an issue at any of them as all the heads seemed to have a rational understanding that a lot of people we not religious and it seems a little silly to make them pretend. Plenty of places also helps with this issue as we could have got into any of the four.

I am an Atheist but understand that we live in a Christian society with Christian based morals and laws (as per Ste). As others have stated I don't care what others chose to believe in, just don't try ram it down other peoples throats. I do get the hump though if religious types try to influence the scientific education of our children with woo woo along the lines of new earth creationism or intelligent design. That can GTF!!

[Swervin_Mervin]

We're on exactly the same page - Richard Dawkins is a fucking cunt. Just as bad, if not worse, than the sky-fairy brigade.

Hallelujah and a-fvcking-men. And any other religiously associated words you can use to describe my agreement with your description of that bell.

Some of you are treading a fairly thin line though using terms such as sky pixies, but that's a whole other debate (that we've already all done).

We'll shortly have to go through the school selection thing, but I'm fairly relaxed. Schols had a far more relgious bent when I were a nipper and I grew up a fairly hardened atheist by a young age, before opening my mind a little and realising agnosticism makes far more logical sense.

[tim]

My kids were made to move school by their lazy mother last year. Near where we both live now there are no alternatives to CoE schools so not everybody does have a choice in that regard. I don't object to it as much as I thought I might, as it happens, despite the crosses and sh1t dotted around the place.

I object more to the pikeys my kids are now exposed to in a school 5 times bigger than they started in.

Recently I was stood outside my daughter's classroom at pick-up time and one of the pikey pre-school kids of one of the pikey mothers just dropped its pikey trousers and took a pikey piss into the flowerbeds. Mother didn't even bat an eyelid.

C'est la vie.

[Carlos]

My kids were made to move school by their lazy mother last year. Near where we both live now there are no alternatives to CoE schools so not everybody does have a choice in that regard. I don't object to it as much as I thought I might, as it happens, despite the crosses and sh1t dotted around the place.

I object more to the pikeys my kids are now exposed to in a school 5 times bigger than they started in.

Recently I was stood outside my daughter's classroom at pick-up time and one of the pikey pre-school kids of one of the pikey mothers just dropped its pikey trousers and took a pikey piss into the flowerbeds. Mother didn't even bat an eyelid.

C'est la vie.

Isn't that just a reflection of where you live rather than the school system ?