Bye Bye Sunak..

[Jobbo]

There’s no way that a supermarket (for example) is going to accept a situation where anyone can sign themselves off.

For most service jobs not producing a sick note for any absence longer than three days is a disciplinary offence.

The law is generally pro-employee. You think the change is going to mean any sickness over 3 days is a disciplinary? Clearly it won’t be.

[V8Granite]

After growing up in a council house in a 100% council area I would say at the very least 50% of the workshy were faking it or at the very least playing the system.

The sooner this happens the better.

How you would go about doing it fairly though will be one hell of a job.

Dave!

[ZedLeg]

You can’t even see that you’re falling into that “well surely they won’t punish the “genuine” claimants” fallacy.

Every single time a government does something like this sick and disabled people end up getting hurt.

[Jobbo]

You can’t even see that you’re falling into that “well surely they won’t punish the “genuine” claimants” fallacy.

Every single time a government does something like this sick and disabled people end up getting hurt.

I assume you’re replying to me rather than Dave.

I’m not falling into any fallacy - I’m pointing out the unintended consequences of another ill thought out policy which seems to have come out of nowhere in a desperate bid for popularity. The consequences for benefit claimants are specifically not what I have been talking about - I’ve only referred to employers and employees.

[ZedLeg]

It was kind of to both of you.

I’m not sure how you’ve concluded that clearly any rule changes will favour workers though.

[V8Granite]

It was kind of to both of you.

I’m not sure how you’ve concluded that clearly any rule changes will favour workers though.

I’ve seen it from both sides…..

I grew up surrounded by the work shy, always with a scam and wondering why my parents didn’t have anything more but were always working.

I also have an Aunt who was absolutely up in arms when you had to prove you needed disability benefit again. Scummy politicians, disgusting we have to go through this etc etc.
She is very happy now both her adopted sons (both autism, one pretty severe) will basically be looked after for life in really great surroundings that give them each as much independence as possible.

You have a bad back ? Diddums, get back and do a different job, apply and get what is available but don’t be a lazy ungrateful twat. I worked with one guy who was injecting himself with painkillers each morning as the idea of “being on the scrounge” disgusted him.

More money for those in need, less for those who don’t require it.

In every case some will be fringe cases and that’s terrible but you wouldn’t help 99 people for the fear of a different one falling over would you ?

As said already though, making it work for the greater good will be one hell of a task. I hope the ones making the choices are practical and with empathy.

Dave!

[ZedLeg]

See this is why I enjoyed arguing on PH more, you’re both wrong but I think in general you’re both decent dudes so I don’t really want to be a dick

[V8Granite]

I say give everyone what they want and let the 5% provide all

I don’t think people are dicks, some I wouldn’t share my chips with though.

Dave!

[GG.]

I say give everyone what they want and let the 5% provide all

This is pretty much the system we have. Most of the population don't pay their fair share of tax at this point.

53.8% are net receipients of hand outs from the state and over 40% pay no income tax at all.

Maybe we need to invert the old American revolutionaries saying of "no taxation without representation"!

[Rich B]

I say give everyone what they want and let the 5% provide all

This is pretty much the system we have. Most of the population don't pay their fair share of tax at this point.

53.8% are net receipients of hand outs from the state and over 40% pay no income tax at all.

Maybe we need to invert the old American revolutionaries saying of "no taxation without representation"!

they have it covered with all of the other taxes everyone pays!

[GG.]

To a degree - the other main source of tax receipts is VAT and those paying the most income tax will also be paying the lions share of VAT as well (plus CGT.. unless your name is Angela), though I take your point that low earners are not exempted from that. In many ways it would be more equitable to have lower rates of VAT and reduce the exemptions on income tax and of course for us to actually tax wealth rather than just income (which we do based on a rationale of little more than it is easier to collect).

Anyway, on the topic of this thread, I'm struggling to think of any group that will vote Conservative this time around other than pensioners. They seem to have perfected reverse triangulation - policies that appeal to absolutely no-one.

[Jobbo]

See this is why I enjoyed arguing on PH more, you’re both wrong but I think in general you’re both decent dudes so I don’t really want to be a dick

I think the policy is wrong so I don’t disagree with you. What I object to is this government coming up with crap populist policies which don’t even achieve what they say they will.

It may not benefit employees but it definitely will disadvantage employers, purely due to the uncertainty it creates. So I’m not wrong at all, just looking at yet another reason it’s a shit policy.