Test drive report

[mik]

992 sounds like an interesting buy (although I still wish they were a bit smaller). If you got one would you still want an MX5? Have I misread your post?

[Rich B]

I think I'd rather a GT4 than a "normal" 911. A GTS would be a very nice daily driver though.

[Ascender]

Some very nice cars there

I've kind of lost track with Porsche as to what all the different models of 911 are now. Must have a mooch down to the local dealer at the weekend to see.

What are used values and depreciation like on "normal" models of 911 these days?

[Jobbo]

992 sounds like an interesting buy (although I still wish they were a bit smaller). If you got one would you still want an MX5? Have I misread your post?

It didn't feel big - incredibly easy to place on the road. I wouldn't write off the idea of a 911 because the 992 has got too big. MX5 is the alternative - so much cheaper yet would it actually give me any less pleasure? I wouldn't buy both.

@Ascender Normal 911s don't depreciate *too* badly but the new list prices are a lot higher than they used to be so the absolute figures are still pretty hefty from new. I'd only buy with a guranateed final value on something of this price; I might be willing to stomach £10k per year depreciation but it's very comforting to have that effectively insured.

Rich, I've had a Boxster and no matter how good a GT4 is, it's still not-a-911. Itch that has to be scratched one day.

[Rich B]

Rich, I've had a Boxster and no matter how good a GT4 is, it's still not-a-911. Itch that has to be scratched one day.

yeah, I do get it.

Though, there's an awful lot of boxster/Cayman that IS a 911 these days. Theres a guy on YouTube who bought a boxster to strip and he started seeing more and more shared parts - to the point where it's only really the visible parts that are different.

Interesting (if very nerdy) watch!

[Ascender]

992 sounds like an interesting buy (although I still wish they were a bit smaller). If you got one would you still want an MX5? Have I misread your post?

It didn't feel big - incredibly easy to place on the road. I wouldn't write off the idea of a 911 because the 992 has got too big. MX5 is the alternative - so much cheaper yet would it actually give me any less pleasure? I wouldn't buy both.

@Ascender Normal 911s don't depreciate *too* badly but the new list prices are a lot higher than they used to be so the absolute figures are still pretty hefty from new. I'd only buy with a guranateed final value on something of this price; I might be willing to stomach £10k per year depreciation but it's very comforting to have that effectively insured.

Rich, I've had a Boxster and no matter how good a GT4 is, it's still not-a-911. Itch that has to be scratched one day.

That's reassuring there's guaranteed final value available on these plans then.

[mik]

It didn't feel big - incredibly easy to place on the road. I wouldn't write off the idea of a 911 because the 992 has got too big. MX5 is the alternative - so much cheaper yet would it actually give me any less pleasure? I wouldn't buy both.

OK - I did indeed miss your point completely - that makes 100% more sense.

992 is the obvious correct answer, but increasingly for road use less is often more.....

[mik]

Though, there's an awful lot of boxster/Cayman that IS a 911 these days.
Interesting (if very nerdy) watch!

<link>

Didn't watch the vid, and I don't dispute the assertion, but I do wonder how much that matters to the majority of buyers? Those who want brand/status will still see the 911 as a higher-in-the-range offering, and those who seek the dynamics of a 911 crave the theoretically flawed weight distribution.

[Rich B]

Though, there's an awful lot of boxster/Cayman that IS a 911 these days.
Interesting (if very nerdy) watch!

<link>

Didn't watch the vid, and I don't dispute the assertion, but I do wonder how much that matters to the majority of buyers? Those who want brand/status will still see the 911 as a higher-in-the-range offering, and those who seek the dynamics of a 911 crave the theoretically flawed weight distribution.

it clearly doesn’t matter much at all. It’s fairly amusing that most will assume the 911 is better built when they are literally be assembled on the same line with most of the same components though!

[Jobbo]

Though, there's an awful lot of boxster/Cayman that IS a 911 these days.
Interesting (if very nerdy) watch!

<link>

Didn't watch the vid, and I don't dispute the assertion, but I do wonder how much that matters to the majority of buyers? Those who want brand/status will still see the 911 as a higher-in-the-range offering, and those who seek the dynamics of a 911 crave the theoretically flawed weight distribution.

it clearly doesn’t matter much at all. It’s fairly amusing that most will assume the 911 is better built when they are literally be assembled on the same line with most of the same components though!

Have you ever looked in any detail at the Boxster/911 relationship from the late-90s onwards? The 986 and 996 were far more the same car than the current Boxster and 992. They shared doors, front end metalwork, front lights, dashboard etc so it was totally visible.

But owning a Boxster and saying 'it's basically a 911' is a twatty thing to do. Been there, avoided saying it and always felt like if I did, the response would be 'yeah, but it's not a 911 is it'. If you're buying something with your heart, it's got to be the one which you really want.

[Mito Man]

What is the point that's trying to be made here? Parts sharing isn't anything new and doesn't seem to affect people when deciding which car to buy otherwise you wouldn't have Lamborghini or Bentley or Rolls Royce around - and that's the high end stuff.

[Explosive Newt]

Test driving the demo GTS was great. It's not an intimidating thing; main take-aways were that I prefer a leather not alcantara steering wheel (at first I really disliked the alcantara wheel, partly because he'd turned the wheel heating on); that it feels incredibly rigid and while the suspension is pretty firm it doesn't crash (in normal mode at least) and flows with the road. The performance of the 480bhp GTS is plenty. 4wd is not something I am fussed about; it feels so planted in 2wd form I can't see the point in paying extra for it, but I'd choose a C4 GTS if speccing one new myself. It took me probably 15-20 mins of the test drive to work out what it reminded me of; the similarity in some ways to my 986 Boxster (very Porsche in a straight line) is mixed with a feeling of being keyed to the road and being darty quite like a spicy Impreza from the hawkeye era - most unexpected. A passenger ride in Mark_BT52's Toshi Arai edition is the closest thing I can think of to that part of the overall feel. Anyway, I very much liked it. ETA: just found the demo car as an approved used car: https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en-GB/det ... ned-3OEDWV - it has more miles on it than the one I wanted to buy

Nice I drove the 991 GTS at the Porsche experience centre in 2019 and I get what you are saying about how wonderfully pointy it felt. It genuinely shrinks around you and pivots as your please. There's shared DNA with the Boxster for sure, I'd say the Boxster feels lighter on its feet but my experience is a bit limited.

The experience day is a fantastic sales pitch for the cars. The only annoyance is you have to pay for it!

[Jobbo]

At least Porsche put the engine in a different place in the two cars.

I agree with you Newt - the Boxster does feel lighter on its toes; lower polar moment of inertia I guess. Neither is a bad car but one of them has a variant that wins ECOTY virtually every year.

[Rich B]

What is the point that's trying to be made here? Parts sharing isn't anything new and doesn't seem to affect people when deciding which car to buy otherwise you wouldn't have Lamborghini or Bentley or Rolls Royce around - and that's the high end stuff.

as I said, the point is that it's an interesting video - especially (to me) the perceived jump in build quality of the 911 being entirely placebo. Interesting too, that from a purely engineering PoV, he reckoned that the 911 was likely cheaper to build than the boxster.

I'm not championing the boxster over the 911, just that Jobbos comment about "not a 911" reminded me to share what I thought was an interesting video.

[Jobbo]

Yesterday's test drive was an Alpine A110. I tried to make my life easier by arranging it for the end of the day but stupidly forgot that test driving a car in a Birmingham suburb in rush hour was going to be a bit frustrating. Fortunately I had long enough (after the initial 15 mins queuing to get through temporary traffic lights) to get a feel for it. This is the car I test drove: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-detail ... 0052702689 - it was only looking at it online that I realise the stickers weren't an advert for the dealer but a truly awful livery Fortunately they had plenty of A110s in stock in different colours not to be put off by this one



In the showroom before I drove it, I had a look at a couple with Atelier paint and a couple of A110Rs. The R wasn't on my radar and I'm not going to be buying one despite its placing in ECOTY but in the flesh it didn't seem as bad value as it did in the magazines. It has the aura of something very special. And in black (not a colour I've seen in reviews) it looks stunning - hides the black bonnet which helps, but menacing with the carbon wheels: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-detail ... 2066273683 - the different wheel design front and back isn't nearly as apparent in the flesh either. It looks right.



The normal A110 looks right too. It does need the A logo on the front wing/filler cap; weird how bare it looks without that inexpensive option. But despite the wide Atelier colour palette I wasn't particularly sold on any paint other than Alpine Blue in the flesh; I quite liked the Azure Blue which is on the Miami Beach edition and which was on a new unregistered stock car they could sell me but not enough to pay the Atelier paint premium of £4,500. Even Alpine Blue is about £1800 though. The one Atelier paint choice I would have loved (Black Tulip - which is purple) has reached the end of its run, with each Atelier paint being used on up to 110 cars only. Anyway, Alpine Blue, Thunder Grey or Black are probably the colours I most like but I'm not entirely sold on any hue currently.

The big spec choice is whether you go for the fixed-backrest lightweight bucket seats (3 height positions but has to be adjusted by the dealership) or the comfort seats which are 6-way adjustable (manually, and the 6-ways are only up/down, fore/aft and backrest recline). The car I test drove had the fixed backrest ones and those felt like the right choice because they're lightest and they were a selling point of the car from launch. They were in the middle height position. Oddly I still felt perched relatively high. The steering wheel is quite adjustable but at its highest was still slightly lower than I wanted for the seat position. The seats are comfy; there's a lot of foam padding which feels like it might disintegrate internally over the years. But it did feel slightly narrow in the arse region so I tried the comfort seats when I got back and would definitely go for them instead; they have plenty of bolstering still but I was immediately sat lower at what felt like the correct height and they just suited my shape better. Obviously the comfort pack (which includes the adjustable seats, upgraded stereo, parking sensors and reversing camera etc) is about £3000 to spec on a new car. I don't think it adds any 'value' per se except that it's necessary for me to sit comfortably.

Immediate thoughts when getting in and driving:
- The rear visibility is rubbish, way worse than an Elise because the rear window that looks so panoramic has the engine cover and other things getting in the way of your rear view out. Needs a rear camera for reversing, I'd say. The mirrors are OK and forward visiblity is good; rather nice in fact being quite low and the car being narrow.
- It doesn't feel special like my early S2 Elise did inside. The leather on the steering wheel is good quality and the design is pretty good, but the trade-off for having actual functions (compared to an Elise) is that you have to put up with more trim and more plastic. I approached the A110 thinking it was an Elise competitor and actually it quite suits a more luxurious interior; the brown leather available in the GT version probably works rather well.
- Being a 4-cylinder is not an issue. It feels rorty and the exhaust makes a good noise. The one I test drove had the sports exhaust with a switchable valve in it; there's a Sport button on the steering wheen (where Porsche put the Sport Chrono knob) and it's in just the right place to press and make the exhaust a bit noisier and gearbox map more aggressive. That's the mode in which you get the crackle-pop on the overrun and it may be completely engineered in but it sounds great. Not farty like a VW DSG trumpet.
- The steering is not as amazing as I'd expected. It faithfully goes exactly where you point it, it's very natural feeling in a corner, it doesn't get deflected by a single wheel dropping into a drain cover (plenty of those round the dealer) so it's objectively fine but it feels like it has a bit of rubberiness or stiction as you initially turn the wheel, and it doesn't have a lot of feel. A million miles away from an Elise with unassisted steering where you hold it in your fingertips and it talks to you.
- Performance is just right. I test drove the normal 248bhp version, not the 288bhp GT, and I would be quite happy with that. Autocar tested it at 10.9s to 100. The gearing and performance are such that you can rev it out in the lower gears and not feel like you're going to be nicked immediately - I didn't use full throttle once in my 911 test drive but I did a couple of times in the A110.
- It is more refined than an Elise but still likely to be a bit wearing on a long journey; I did wonder if I'd actually choose to get in it and drive to the office.
- While it still feels quite special in town traffic, the chassis does wake up as you increase the speed; it would definitely be able to demolish a bumpy B-road and do it without ruffling you too much. Is that actually fun? It may be more capable than thrilling.
- It doesn't feel particularly light. The control weights and so on are not engineered to make it feel like a lightweight car; it uses the relatively low mass to aid its chassis tuning more than showing it off, I think. Or maybe 1100kg isn't actually that light - it's 100kg more than an MX5 (which also doesn't feel light like an Elise).

Overall I'd say I handed it back not being sure if it was what I was after. I was told by the Alpine specialist that they don't generally discount new ones, that the finance deal (0% on a GT, 2.9% on a base model) had finished but they're still doing 2.9% on all versions from stock, but that they had no GTs even in Alpine central stock anyway, and that speccing options (like the paint, comfort pack, sports exhaust etc) added nothing to the residual value of a base model so the finance deals didn't work out so well then. Helpful but not exactly selling it. As I left he offered me the 24-plate pre-registered (negligible miles) Atelier Green one from the showroom at £58k - that's this car: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-detail ... 2066273676
And the green is nice, but I don't want a green car and it still feels expensive against a 1-owner 1200 mile 23 plate car like this: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-detail ... 9182095979
Or a 73-plate GT on my favourite alloys like this: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-detail ... 1033609359

I'm still swaying towards a new MX5; the 2024 update version comes with recaro seats in the Homura which lists for about £34k. Now that is a lot for an MX5 when I can get a brand new stock 2023 model which is not much different (other than the seats) for £26-27k: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-detail ... 0183097137. But I reckon if I wait a couple of months there will be discounts on new ones and I do really want the nicer seats.
Is an MX5 special like an A110? No, because you see so many of them around. But it's a one-tonne manual sports car with an incredibly simple and usable soft top; it is far more of a contrast to my daily car than the A110 with its roof and auto box.

Part of me thinks I should try a 718 Boxster and part of me thinks I should just go for that ivory 992 with tartan seats. All of me thinks I really love my S6 and enjoyed taking it the fun way home even after trying the A110. So no decision as yet

[Matty]

I still can't get over the looks, especially the rear.

Are you planning to try an Emira?

[Sundayjumper]

I got bored after the second photo. Just buy the 911, it’s obviously what you want.

[Jobbo]

Sorry it was TL:DR but I deliberately left it that way - it reflects my thoughts on the A110. I really wanted to love it, and I do love the way it looks. Not sure the fuel pump issues have yet been fully sorted and the number of people finding aluminium corrosion under the paint on 2-3 year old cars does put me off.

I think what I really want is an MX5 to be honest. I'll have a 911, just maybe not yet. Once you have one I think you always have one and I'm not ready for that life-long commitment

[Mito Man]

I got bored after the second photo. Just buy the 911, it’s obviously what you want.

This.
Alpine is a nice enough car but no competition to a 911. Also it still looks like it has the interior of a £30k car. I don’t think they’re worth £40+ and they’re all suffering from rusty arches after a few years. Yes the warranty will repaint it but if it’s made of crap metal with a crap galvanising process it’ll come back and who knows what the chassis will look like.

[MikeHunt]

I still havent driven a a110, probably should avoid doing so. I think that I would want the R but it feels way to expensive for what it is. I think that Id prefer an Alfa 4C, used prices for 2018/19 cars are pretty similar.

The Mazda is a lot of car for the money and seems like there are a lot of cars simailrly discounted. Id defiantly hold out for the facelift with recaros and the bigger screen. Did you see my reply further back in this thread about rust?