Heavy EVs

[Rich B]

From that video it looks like aerodynamics didn't make much difference - the empty trailer compared to the caravan were very similar.

Massive reduction in range trying to pull a trailer on the highway though.

[Rich B]

EVs range massively affected by trailers (even very slippery empty ones!)

[Rich B]

Looking again, that EV rural number looks so far out it's suspect. I'll have to watch the whole video and see if they address it.

[V8Granite]

Towing 3 tons with a car on a trailer in my ML results in 17mpg at 60mph on cruise.

Towing 1 ton with no car on gave me 20mpg

No towing is about 21mpg

The first two are back to back tests going to Bristol with a car and back without one.

The last figure is my average over the last 95,000 miles.

Not a huge difference, some of that will be as when towing it takes much longer to go into 7th as I tow in sport mode as the suspension is better suited to towing then as it’s former.

Dave!

[Mito Man]

I think EVs are so efficient - over 90% of their battery capacity converted into forward momentum that any additional weight or drag has greater impact on them. Just look at the Tesla configurator, a set of wheels makes a difference of almost 50 miles in range. ICE cars are already only about 40% efficient for a good one so it translates to an overall smaller reduction in efficiency as it's so piss poor in the first place.

[V8Granite]

I think EVs are so efficient - over 90% of their battery capacity converted into forward momentum that any additional weight or drag has greater impact on them. Just look at the Tesla configurator, a set of wheels makes a difference of almost 50 miles in range. ICE cars are already only about 40% efficient for a good one so it translates to an overall smaller reduction in efficiency as it's so piss poor in the first place.

This is my understanding too, I’ve never had to take into account weather conditions and and how many people we were carrying into range issues. Apart from lots of very short journeys it has never affected the range to any measureable amount.

Dave!

[mik]

I think EVs are so efficient - over 90% of their battery capacity converted into forward momentum that any additional weight or drag has greater impact on them. Just look at the Tesla configurator, a set of wheels makes a difference of almost 50 miles in range. ICE cars are already only about 40% efficient for a good one so it translates to an overall smaller reduction in efficiency as it's so piss poor in the first place.

That doesn't work mathematically though.

Regardless of the efficiency of the power plant - if a wider+heavier set of wheels has an impact of x% on the efficiency of a vehicle then it will affect the range whether it is ICE or EV. In your example above, the ICE can't suddenly become 42% efficient to cover this.

The difference is that range isn't generally any concern for ICE. Range numbers are generally far better to start with, but if you run low, there is a petrol station nearby where stopping, paying and restarting takes as long as refuelling. You don't really calculate your fuel stops, as you'll need a comfort break before you will need to refill - and if you have to stop for petrol 25miles earlier than you would have without extra weights - you don't really notice (or care).

Only occasionally - like when you are horsing round the highlands with driving buddies in a V6 Exige and an Ariel Atom (both sporting 40l tanks) do you have to carefully plan your route for fuel (and carry octane booster with you as Super isn't widely available). The planning process then becomes very similar to EV route planning....

One difference is that EV are impacted in different ways from ICE due to regen. If you add weight, you can almost cover it with regen (unless your journey is all motorway), but if you add aero + mechanical drag with wider, stickier rubber - no opportunity to recover. Hence the impacts we see don't always seem "logical".

[V8Granite]

I think that’s the wrong way to look at it though, I’ve driven like an absolute tool and still done 300 miles to a tank, I’ve driven like an angel and got 450.

How are electric cars losing the same amount of range with it just being winter, it can’t all be heating as most say they just use heated seats etc.

Dave!

[nuttinnew]

Only occasionally - like when you are horsing round the highlands with driving buddies in a V6 Exige and an Ariel Atom (both sporting 40l tanks) do you have to carefully plan your route for fuel (and carry octane booster with you as Super isn't widely available). The planning process then becomes very similar to EV route planning....

Caution: blatant racism;

[nuttinnew]

Flat trailer Vs caravan, Diesel Vs EV towing.
Data from about 8min.

And I helped out on this video.

Interesting. would have been nice if you could have sourced two identical-except-for-motor vehicles (or at least more alike, e.g. pickup & pickup, or hatch & hatch), but that's easier said than done.

[nuttinnew]

Tesla removed the fog lights on the facelift model 3 and that increased range by 40 miles.

I don't tend to see Teslas habitually driven with them on though so does it make that much difference irl? When they go electric, Juke and Qashqai owners are going to be fvcked. Prius often have them on also, usually while mincing in a middle lane 15-20 below.

[Mito Man]

Tesla removed the fog lights on the facelift model 3 and that increased range by 40 miles.

I don't tend to see Teslas habitually driven with them on though so does it make that much difference irl? When they go electric, Juke and Qashqai owners are going to be fvcked. Prius often have them on also, usually while mincing in a middle lane 15-20 below.

You don’t see Tesla’s using fog lights ever because there’s no physical button for them. If you were to actually try to find the fog lights hidden in one of the various submenus, on a very foggy road as you’re driving, you’d die.

[Sundayjumper]

That doesn't work mathematically though.

Regardless of the efficiency of the power plant - if a wider+heavier set of wheels has an impact of x% on the efficiency of a vehicle then it will affect the range whether it is ICE or EV.

I think that might be the wrong - mathematically - way it works. Rather than the change being x percent it's x <absolute number of whatever drag is measured in>, and when the EV has been optimised to minimise drag, that <x> is a bigger percentage change than it would be with a "normal" car.

[nuttinnew]

This may be of interest; Hussain Ali drag reduction on a production vehicle https://pdfcoffee.com/session-4-1-hussa ... -free.html

[mik]

it's x <absolute number of whatever drag is measured in>

Aerodynamic drag is expressed as a coefficient (cD), but you need this to be multiplied by the frontal area (cDA) to then do the calculations on the drag force. Drag is measured in newtons.