Harry’s Garage

[DaveE]

@GG.

equivalently specc'd equivalent Porsche.

Genuine question: in what way is a base Emira (as per Harry's costs) better/differently spec'd to a basic Porsche spec (or even a GTS)?

[GG.]

@GG.

equivalently specc'd equivalent Porsche.

Genuine question: in what way is a base Emira (as per Harry's costs) better/differently spec'd to a basic Porsche spec (or even a GTS)?

The prices that are being quoted for the Emira are "First Edition" spec which include quite a number of things that would be cost options on the equivalent Porsche - e.g. heated 12 way seats, premium sound system, sports exhaust, parking sensors and dimming mirrors - I think you would be nearly £10k on top for that spec on a Cayman / 992 (excluding if it was a GTS which will have a lot of those standard but the base price for which is higher).

[RobYob]

ETA: What I'd have done is negotiate the I4 and the V8 from Mercedes, lengthen the wheelbase by 6 inches to make it fit and price the v8 at 95k so the V8 undercuts the base 992 but has much more power (base 992 being 380hp I think). Aston probably have a contractual restriction on Merc selling anyone else their V8 though...

There's also the small problem of a bespoke transaxle. Lotus need drop-in engine+gearbox.


Would we be speculating on what they "should have" done if the I4 Emira launch had been flawlessly executed? Gearbox calibration spot on, ride sorted, nicer noise; I can imagine those things "could" have been delivered had Lotus been given the development resources/support. But as ever I imagine Hethel is still hand to mouth despite Geely's deep pockets.

[DaveE]

@GG.

equivalently specc'd equivalent Porsche.

Genuine question: in what way is a base Emira (as per Harry's costs) better/differently spec'd to a basic Porsche spec (or even a GTS)?

The prices that are being quoted for the Emira are "First Edition" spec which include quite a number of things that would be cost options on the equivalent Porsche - e.g. heated 12 way seats, premium sound system, sports exhaust, parking sensors and dimming mirrors - I think you would be nearly £10k on top for that spec on a Cayman / 992 (excluding if it was a GTS which will have a lot of those standard but the base price for which is higher).

Ah thanks, I think I missed that these were launch edition prices/specs

[integrale_evo]

I think they’re a bit stuck.

If they released a small, light 4 cylinder car with an aluminium chassis people are just going to say it’s a rebodied Elise forever more, and then people won’t want to pay the £50k a modern Elise would cost and criticise it for being heavier, more expensive and not as back to basics as the original.

Go more upmarket, improve the fit and finish, make it a bit bigger and more useable with bigger engines and people will say why should I buy a lotus when I could get a proper car like a Porsche?

[Jobbo]

£84k (OTR) for the i4 and £90k for the v6

Not much of a difference

As someone else said, I'm sure the i4 will get tuned to silly power - but does it really need it?

It would be interesting now to have a comparison of a manuel and auto v6 - a lot of what Harry and his son were talking about was related to the vagaries of the gearbox in the i4

wait, didn't Mik say it was the same cost as an entry level cayman? £84k?!

@Rich B Should have gone to Specsavers? Or just a bit thick?

[Rich B]

£84k (OTR) for the i4 and £90k for the v6

Not much of a difference

As someone else said, I'm sure the i4 will get tuned to silly power - but does it really need it?

It would be interesting now to have a comparison of a manuel and auto v6 - a lot of what Harry and his son were talking about was related to the vagaries of the gearbox in the i4

wait, didn't Mik say it was the same cost as an entry level cayman? £84k?!

@Rich B Should have gone to Specsavers? Or just a bit thick?

oooh, Jobbos angry with me!

[IanF]

I think they should have either launched just one engine; probably the i4 for longevity ie emissions or completely separated them and created an A110 weight i4, and an Esprit style and weight V6/8. Two cars this closely matched is a bit strange to me.

[GG.]

There are certainly open goals there for hitting. If Maserati had used the same 4.7l V8 from the Granturismo and slotted that in the MC20, ditched the carbon body and priced it at 100k-ish they would have had people falling over themselves to buy it. I would have had one certainly. You could say emissions regs would have put a stop to that but that doesn't answer the question why they didn't do it alongside the GT / Quattroporte when they could. Ferrari couldn't really have been too up in arms about that as they were selling cars twice the price with 30% more HP. Question remains why they didn't give people what they wanted?

Same with the Loltus really. Just not quite the right mix of ingredients but so close really. Needs to be a bit longer/wider/sleeker at the back (exactly like an MC20 really), a bit more power (and if nicking an engine then make it a good one) and a gear knob that isn't a copy of the Momo one I had on my Ford Focus when I was 17 - job jobbed.

[Mito Man]

There are certainly open goals there for hitting. If Maserati had used the same 4.7l V8 from the Granturismo and slotted that in the MC20, ditched the carbon body and priced it at 100k-ish they would have had people falling over themselves to buy it. I would have had one certainly. You could say emissions regs would have put a stop to that but that doesn't answer the question why they didn't do it alongside the GT / Quattroporte when they could. Ferrari couldn't really have been too up in arms about that as they were selling cars twice the price with 30% more HP. Question remains why they didn't give people what they wanted?

Same with the Loltus really. Just not quite the right mix of ingredients but so close really. Needs to be a bit longer/wider/sleeker at the back (exactly like an MC20 really), a bit more power (and if nicking an engine then make it a good one) and a gear knob that isn't a copy of the Momo one I had on my Ford Focus when I was 17 - job jobbed.

You would think Maserati would have learned from the Alfa 4C with regards to making an over priced carbon tub with smaller capacity engine
I haven't looked too into the emissions regs, I understand all ICE cars have to be hybrid by 2030, but until then surely anything retrofitted with a PPF is legal as long as you meet the average fleet emissions which shouldn't be too difficult with all the EVs they're selling now and the ability to buy carbon credits. Which makes me think that all the manufacturers who are jumping the gun are doing it purely for profit reasons. And why not make a V8 hybrid...

Spot on about the Emira, it looked good for a £60k car but its proportions are not quite right. I can't put my finger on it though, I think the driver still sits too far forwards as if the car is a 2+2 so it looks a bit odd side on for a 2 seater.

[Mito Man]

Well maybe I was right if this is remotely true!
https://www.motor1.com/news/681031/mer ... again/amp/
Guessing the C63 4 walloper isn’t selling too well.

[Brannen]

Interesting - I can't say I've seen a new C63 at all. Are they even out yet? Anecdotally, I do see a lot of M3/M4s, so guessing more people went that route over the Mercedes this time round.

[GG.]

Yes can't imagine it will have many takers. A European muscle car with 4cyl power seems pointless to me.

Interestingly walking around Taipei recently you can see how different markets (with different taxes) skew Manufacturers toward this stuff. All I saw out there were 718 Caymans and Macans - I did see one GT4 but the rest were likely the flat 4 lump which you see comparitively few of here and not at all in the US.

[Mito Man]

I was surprised to read on the PH Alpina story that Japan are suddenly getting into diesel cars much like we were 20 years ago! Looks like they completely missed the boat first time road and now think they’re the best thing since sliced bread

[Holley]

I couldn't buy a £80k sports car where the engine has been detuned from a £60k hatch.

Seeing as the price is similar to the V6, they should have just kept it at 420hp. Some would have bought the V6 anyway just because it's a manual.

Better still, they should up it to 500hp then it would offer something over a GT4.

[Jobbo]

oooh, Jobbos angry with me!

Even more so now you’ve missed an apostrophe

[Jobbo]

Harry’s review of the new M2:


Oh my god, the M coloured bits on the seats are appalling

[Carlos]

Saves the youngsters putting those coloured seatbelt things on

You can have those seats in plain black leather with blue stitching but you still get the pixelated M graphic on the door card.

[Rich B]

"The rear seats don't actually flip down"

Apart from the fact you can clearly see the levers to fold them down, in the same place as they were on my e46, e92, f87...

[Rich B]

No desire to change to the new one from me. 200 extra kgs, no faster and I just can't get used to the looks - the M240i is far more handsome.

Plus, 275 front tyres!? It's just all sized up to cope with the extra lard it's carrying.