The Cost of Mileage & Supercar Good Buys 2023

[SSO]

I just posted up a new blog on the Cost of Mileage on Ferraris and Supercar Good Buys for 2023:

https://karenable.com/the-cost-of-mileage/

Thoughts on the Cost of Mileage?

What do you think will be good buys this year?

[RobYob]

I wouldn't want to make the correlation=causation boo-boo but it can't just be that Ferrari still have a reputation for fragility or that the V12s are more attractive to the vain and fickle.

As for automatic gearboxes (re:insane premium for a manual F430) I don't get a feeling of people putting the rose-tinted glasses for that particular bit of tech, it'd be a bit like being nostalgic for a first gen iPhone, it's not classic, just old?

Maybe?

[Ascender]

When checking the Ferrari US site today, two similar spec F12s popped up right next to each other. Both were 2015 models, Rosso, well spec’ed, with clean Carfax reports. The first had an asking price of $315k and the second $209K. Why the $106k spread? The 41,902 difference in the mileage on the odometer.

That's insanity.

Assuming FFSH, warranty and condition, why on earth would you buy the lower mileage one if you plan to drive it? I thought Ferrari had hoped to try and get away from this with those extended warranties, free service plans etc and like you say, their much improved reliability.

[Mito Man]

I don’t think it’s that crazy when looking at percentage terms. About 40% - probably not too dissimilar for any sports car when comparing very low and pretty high mileage examples?

[Matty]

Thing is that 10k vs 50k is a far cry from 60k vs 100k, even in regular cars, let alone the supercar circles.

That is, I'd suspect cars of that ilk start to tank hard in value over 50k miles. The initial Ferrai example you give ("Do Ferraris essentially become worthless once they hit 125k on the odometer") I'm assuming means the $209k car has 125k on the clock?
Where as the other examples you give from McLaren, Porche and AM are of comparisons with much lower mileage, comparing 10k to 50k.

What's the difference between an F12 with 10k and an F12 with 50k, out of interest? Unfortnately on this little island none of the examples here have much over 15k!

[mik]

I suspect this is linked to owner profiles.

Generalising - there are few questions around the technical competence of the teams at Ferrari. They make fabulous products. Yet their successes pale to almost insignificance beside the successes of the marketing and brand teams. Have ample expendable income? Ferrari has the cachet that others don’t have.

Let’s avoid using Lotus in this analysis as I’ll be accused of fanboism, but let’s go more extreme : I’d wager > 95% of Noble owners are genuine driving enthusiasts who can/do push their cars limits.

In contrast I would wager < 10% of Ferrari owners could be similarly categorised. There are of course many owners who can and do appreciate what they have purchased. But not many.

And when you buy for the brand/label/cachet - things like mileage become far more significant in defining the value of an item. Hugely ironic when it comes to cars, which should - of course - be driven.

Driving buddy sold his 997 GT3RS (when it was a “current” model) - which he loved - as a single hoon in the highlands wiped more than £1k off its value due to mileage increase. He couldn’t enjoy driving it knowing how much it was costing him,…

Cameo appearance of @Maurice ’s first Exige.

[Jobbo]

Unfortnately on this little island none of the examples here have much over 15k!

Is that because virtually all of the examples on this little island have had mileage correction?

[SSO]

When checking the Ferrari US site today, two similar spec F12s popped up right next to each other. Both were 2015 models, Rosso, well spec’ed, with clean Carfax reports. The first had an asking price of $315k and the second $209K. Why the $106k spread? The 41,902 difference in the mileage on the odometer.

That's insanity.

Assuming FFSH, warranty and condition, why on earth would you buy the lower mileage one if you plan to drive it? I thought Ferrari had hoped to try and get away from this with those extended warranties, free service plans etc and like you say, their much improved reliability.

Hasn't made any difference. If you want to drive it, buy one with a bit over 10k on the odometer and drive it

[Matty]

When I advertised the 4C, and all 3 people I had contact me did so because they didn't read the advert and after a chat though that 60k miles was "too high" - most examples are around the 15-25k marker.

It wasn't price; mine was, at the time, about £7k, or 20% cheaper than the nearest other car - plus mine was newer with a better spec. I'm not sure if it's down to preference, percieved reliability/wear at that age or just a catch-22 that they're everyone is worried about selling higher mileage cars, so no one does despite not having an issue with it themselves.

[mik]

I'm not sure if it's down to preference, percieved reliability/wear at that age or just a catch-22 that they're everyone is worried about selling higher mileage cars, so no one does despite not having an issue with it themselves.

I have a strong suspicion it’s the latter most of the time.

[SSO]

I'm not sure if it's down to preference, percieved reliability/wear at that age or just a catch-22 that they're everyone is worried about selling higher mileage cars, so no one does despite not having an issue with it themselves.

I have a strong suspicion it’s the latter most of the time.

One I find a bit bizarre is Range Rovers and mileage. Given they are notoriously unreliable there are still plenty of high mileage examples around and they seem to change hands quite frequently.

[Holley]

I think it was better when top end cars depreciated, a good incentive to use it.

I remember looking at a 2004 911 Turbo in 2010 that was £35,000 with 55k on the clock. Looking at 6 year old 911 Turbo's on pistonheads now firstly shows that they're all still over £100k. Secondly the highest milage one has 39k, but most are at a depressingly low 15k.

I wonder if it's not just depreciation that stops people using them as much. Could be that the main car is more appealing than it used to be (fast SUV's etc), the increase in track days (doesn't add too many miles) or car guys have moved on

[Mito Man]

Another factor would be that the more expensive the car you own the more cars you own overall and so the less mileage you put on each one.
The Bentley CEO said years ago that the average new Bentley customer has 8 cars. The average Bugatti customer has 84 cars, 3 jets and a yacht.
Probably a nice spread of high end Porsche, Ferraris etc in that with not much time to drive them.

[mik]

The average Bugatti customer has 84 cars, 3 jets and a yacht.

Source? 3 jets?

[Mito Man]

The average Bugatti customer has 84 cars, 3 jets and a yacht.

Source? 3 jets?

Actual source is Bloomberg but that’s subscription only
https://www.motor1.com/news/50066/the- ... yacht/amp/

[mik]

Blimey.

[Jobbo]

I assume the average Bugatti is owned by a small airline rather than an individual.

[mik]

I’m still a bit confused by this.

So you have a private jet, but are worried it might be getting a service / private jet MOT when you want to use it. So you buy a second private jet.

You are still well under the average number of jets per Bug owner. Why?

@SSO I reckon you are probably best places to try and answer this for me…..

[Mito Man]

Why would you have multiple cars? You only have one arse…

[mik]

I guess I am looking for logic when there is a strong "because I can" element.



Baby this is amazing. A jet! The Gulfstream you've wanted for years!

It's awesome.

Lets head off to the Maldives on the 22nd!

Woah - the Airbus A350 will be much better for that - it won't be here 'til April.

You're changing your jet before you've even used it?

Additional babes. When I'm shopping in New York in June, you'll still be able to fly off somewhere with the kids in the Glufstream!

Chaniqua, do we really need something that big? Or more than one jet, it seems....

Look, Bill Gates has four jets. FOUR! And besides, didn't you hear about that hangar-find 1992 Learjet with less than 200hrs on the airframe? I've put in a bid on that bad boi too! It's like muthafunkin brand new....

Oh. Where are you going to go in that?

No - it's for the corner of the games room! Gonna move that second basketball court.....