Coronavirus
Re: Coronavirus
Also I imagine there'll be swathes of people now intelligible for a booster till January anyway as they've picked up Covid. I know several in that position.
The artist formerly known as _Who_
- DeskJockey
- Posts: 4715
- Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:58 am
Re: Coronavirus
Because the unvaccinated that end up in hospital means that other treatments for other people have to be postponed or cancelled. So the impact is causes issues for everyone.Simon wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 1:11 pm More talk of impending restrictions, either before or after Christmas.
Apart from any retail/hospitality that's closed that I obviously won't be able to go into anyway, I won't be abiding by any new rules restricting my social contact. Apart from the lack of moral authority the government now has on the issue, it remains fact that lockdowns are about 'protecting the NHS', but it's still mostly the unvaxed who end up in hospital. So why should I have my freedoms restricted because some people won't protect themselves?
We need a lockdown of the unvaccinated. If you aren't vaxxed then no access to unnecessary retail, hospitality, no indoor mixing etc. Random spot checks and strict penalties on establishments that don't enforce the passports.
Screw the unvaxxed and let the rest of society carry on as normal.
The government's lack of moral authority does not mean we should abandon ours. If restricting social interaction is the advice of the medical experts, then I think that's what we need to do.
---
Driving a Galaxy far far away
Driving a Galaxy far far away
Re: Coronavirus
Because no medical expert will ever say something so divisive as 'lockdown the unvaccinated', but because it's mostly them that will end up in hospital that's exactly what needs to happen. It may not be a nice thing to hear but it's true. And society can't keep stopping as a whole for those that won't do what is necessary.
The artist formerly known as _Who_
- DeskJockey
- Posts: 4715
- Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:58 am
Re: Coronavirus
I'm not disagreeing with special measures for the unvaccinated, but until that happens, we all have to bear their burden. Not fair or reasonable, but we need to protect and help those that have other medical issues.
---
Driving a Galaxy far far away
Driving a Galaxy far far away
Re: Coronavirus
The only way to protect those with medical issues is to lockdown unvaxxed people. No use if said person with medical issues can’t go to hospital because unvaxxed pricks are filling capacity.
How about not having a sig at all?
Re: Coronavirus
I've not seen the stats that show it's mainly unvaccinated in hospital?
Re: Coronavirus
Doesn't seem to be true: https://fullfact.org/health/health-guar ... ed-deaths/
Re: Coronavirus
With Germany introducing quarantine for UK Arrivals, my skiing trip at the end of January is now off.
Re: Coronavirus
the assumption that is is only the unvaccinated getting it seems to be the base for a lot of anger on here.Jobbo wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:43 amDoesn't seem to be true: https://fullfact.org/health/health-guar ... ed-deaths/
- DeskJockey
- Posts: 4715
- Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:58 am
Re: Coronavirus
For me the key issue is that they're needlessly occupying a hospital bed when they most likely wouldn't need to of they'd been vaccinated. The knock on effect is an avoidable increase in pressure on the NHS.
---
Driving a Galaxy far far away
Driving a Galaxy far far away
Re: Coronavirus
is there info showing that to be the case though? If the same proportion are in hospital as are vaccinated/ unvaccinated then they're not causing any greater issue.DeskJockey wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:24 am For me the key issue is that they're needlessly occupying a hospital bed when they most likely wouldn't need to of they'd been vaccinated. The knock on effect is an avoidable increase in pressure on the NHS.
I'm getting my booster today, so I'm happy with it, but there seems to be some real heightened hatred on here to people who have chosen not to. I'm just trying to understand what actual studies it's based on - because talking about withholding treatment and the like is not a particularly "nice" thing to talk about.
- IanF
- Posts: 2414
- Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:58 pm
- Currently Driving: Ferrari F430 Spider
BMW M4 Comp
Mini Cooper
LR Evoque P300e - Contact:
Re: Coronavirus
From lower down in the link.. you are 32 times more likely to die unvaccinated vs fully vaccinated. It’s not unreasonable to suggest that people who die probably needed a lot more care than a person who is released after a few days of palliative care. Ofcourse, if you survive after a few days in hospital, then you’ve occupied a bed but won’t be included in the mortality figures.Rich B wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:04 amthe assumption that is is only the unvaccinated getting it seems to be the base for a lot of anger on here.Jobbo wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:43 amDoesn't seem to be true: https://fullfact.org/health/health-guar ... ed-deaths/
Also, I would suggest that the reason there are more vaccinated in hospital is because there are a lot more people vaccinated..
Cheers,
Ian
Ian
- DeskJockey
- Posts: 4715
- Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:58 am
Re: Coronavirus
From what I've read/seen/heard from medics the issue is that Covid protocol require isolation wards, so unvaccinated people take up not just a bed, but potentially the space from several others. And, they need more care because they're more ill. Which, when it is avoidable is rather wasteful. The lack of flexibility that creates then has further impact on other treatments.Rich B wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:39 amis there info showing that to be the case though? If the same proportion are in hospital as are vaccinated/ unvaccinated then they're not causing any greater issue.DeskJockey wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:24 am For me the key issue is that they're needlessly occupying a hospital bed when they most likely wouldn't need to of they'd been vaccinated. The knock on effect is an avoidable increase in pressure on the NHS.
I'm getting my booster today, so I'm happy with it, but there seems to be some real heightened hatred on here to people who have chosen not to. I'm just trying to understand what actual studies it's based on - because talking about withholding treatment and the like is not a particularly "nice" thing to talk about.
---
Driving a Galaxy far far away
Driving a Galaxy far far away
Re: Coronavirus
last sentence - absolutely - hence I was referring to proportion.IanF wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:00 amFrom lower down in the link.. you are 32 times more likely to die unvaccinated vs fully vaccinated. It’s not unreasonable to suggest that people who die probably needed a lot more care than a person who is released after a few days of palliative care. Ofcourse, if you survive after a few days in hospital, then you’ve occupied a bed but won’t be included in the mortality figures.Rich B wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:04 amthe assumption that is is only the unvaccinated getting it seems to be the base for a lot of anger on here.Jobbo wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:43 am
Doesn't seem to be true: https://fullfact.org/health/health-guar ... ed-deaths/
Also, I would suggest that the reason there are more vaccinated in hospital is because there are a lot more people vaccinated..
With the "32 times" bit, that time line is quite interesting- starting jan 2021 - not a lot of people had been vaccinated back then - even the vulnerable, and that was slap bang in the biggest wave too. It would be interesting to see more recent data.
I'm not waving any anti-vaccinated flag btw - just interested to see if the hatred on here from otherwise normal people is justified.
Re: Coronavirus
Unvaccinated people make up about 10-15% of the adult population, but are unreasonably represented by their numbers in hospital. If they were vaxxed they'd be less likely to be in hospital. You can have more vaxxed than unvaxxed in hostpital, but unvaxxed still being a major issue because the unvaccinated group have a higher % in hospital then the vaxxinated group. Does that make sense?
Basically it's irrelevant if there are more vaxxed than unvaxxed in hospital because unvaxed are overreprestented. Also unvaxxed hugely more likely to be in ICU etc, compared to general admission.
Basically it's irrelevant if there are more vaxxed than unvaxxed in hospital because unvaxed are overreprestented. Also unvaxxed hugely more likely to be in ICU etc, compared to general admission.
The artist formerly known as _Who_
Re: Coronavirus
what's the latest figures on this - there's lots of debunked claims flying around about silly 80-90% of hospitalisations, but is it actually the case now?
Re: Coronavirus
I saw an interview with a nurse on the news a couple of days ago (can’t remember the programme or the hospital) and she was frustrated to the point of tears at how the vast majority of the people they were treating were unvaccinated.
Re: Coronavirus
Reading up, there's lots of misrepresenting figures - lots of "I heard..." and "vast majority" and "80% of certain age groups over certain time periods".... Let's find out!
70% of people are fully (2 shots) vaccinated in the U.K. (children are counted in the hospital admissions, so need to be in this too).
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations
It's estimated that 35% hospitalised are unvaccinated.
https://fullfact.org/health/economist-v ... on-status/
So that's only a 5% shift. Certainly not vast or a particular majority.
However, I've yet to find current info on the severity. So any links would be good.
70% of people are fully (2 shots) vaccinated in the U.K. (children are counted in the hospital admissions, so need to be in this too).
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations
It's estimated that 35% hospitalised are unvaccinated.
https://fullfact.org/health/economist-v ... on-status/
So that's only a 5% shift. Certainly not vast or a particular majority.
However, I've yet to find current info on the severity. So any links would be good.
Re: Coronavirus
I'm trying to find the definitive figures, but a matron at Kings says the unvaxxed make up 80-90% of critical care beds in that hospital. <note this isn't the same as just admitted to hospital>
The artist formerly known as _Who_
Re: Coronavirus
yep, it may well be the case in that hospital. I wonder if there's the data for all hospitals?Simon wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:44 pmI'm trying to find the definitive figures, but a matron at Kings says the unvaxxed make up 80-90% of critical care beds in that hospital. <note this isn't the same as just admitted to hospital>