Project Binky

[Mito Man]

I was going to post an in depth reply on this very subject but something else has caught my attention.

[Explosive Newt]

Question for the forum’s boffins:

Is their custom ECU so magic that they just plug all the relevant sensors, relays, actuators, etc etc into it and it self calibrates, knows what to do and sets the engine going? Or will episode 36 be entirely Richard writing lines of code so it knows which way up the camshaft is?

[RobYob]

Question for the forum’s boffins:

Is their custom ECU so magic that they just plug all the relevant sensors, relays, actuators, etc etc into it and it self calibrates, knows what to do and sets the engine going? Or will episode 36 be entirely Richard writing lines of code so it knows which way up the camshaft is?

You would hope a baseline cal of ST205 + new gubbins would be pre-installed and then they'll spend a few days/week tweaking it on a dyno.

[integrale_evo]

You don’t need to code it, but you will have to tell it how the various inputs are configured, usually just with drop down menus unless you’re doing something really specialist.

[Explosive Newt]

I guess I'm just a bit skeptical about next episode being them plugging it all together and then just turning the key and it working...

[Beany]

I guess I'm just a bit skeptical about next episode being them plugging it all together and then just turning the key and it working...

I imagine it won't be that straightfoward, but it may be simpler than it might appear - most sensors are variable voltage output, variable resistance output, or a 0 or 1 output and input (IE 0 or 5v) so if you feed the various values those represent into the ECU (IE a coolant sensor might be 1-5v representing 0-150dec linearly) then you're basically there. (yes I watch a lot of South Main Auto and the shit Eric can do with a basic multimeter and scope is eye opening)

Getting a base map running with the slightly different setup might pose some challenges, but at that stage you're basically tweeking fuel spark and air in a loose manner to get the thing started and make sure it doesn't shake itself apart, and I don't imagine they'd go further than that in one episode.

After that would be performance mapping, which I expect they'd spend more time (possibly an entire episode) on as getting it genuinely drivable on the road rather than being a highly strung laggy track monster is the more interesting part (to me at least).

[RobYob]

There should be more than enough 3SGTE know-how floating around to get it running well enough to drive to the Dyno for a performance tune.

It's not a fiddly widdly direct injection variable vane EGR'd alloy blocked pretty boy of an engine after all

[_andy]

hopefully the mini gets wrapped up

It has been, in blue plastic. Didn't you even watch the video?

Not sure how anyone can be interested enough to watch previous videos of bracket making, then be 'over it' sufficiently that they don't want to see the final assembly

Trust me a lot of the brackets got fast forwarded

It seems like making things just for the sake of it, I really think a well engineered V-Tec mini fwd would be a far better car overall and more interesting with it. I think I was lost about 4 episodes back.

Dave!

I'm also starting to lose a bit of interest in the Mini, it's getting quite drawn out but I guess is earning them a few quid through Patreon so can't blame them if that is the case.

You might have seen it already, but Mighty Car Mods put a Honda B16B into Mini a while back:

[ZedLeg]

That's a great build, up there with the RB 240Z and Supergramps for their best ones.

[drcarlos]

A lot of the mcm builds use haltech custom ECU’s and looms which isn’t a million miles away from the ecu they are using on binky. It’s slightly intimidating all this ecu stuff too, I’ve yet to download and install the software for my mega squirt ecu let alone connect to it to see what’s going on and how it’s configured.
The mcm builds and haltech config and mapping has given me a good idea of how these things are done and set up though.

[V8Granite]

It has been, in blue plastic. Didn't you even watch the video?

Not sure how anyone can be interested enough to watch previous videos of bracket making, then be 'over it' sufficiently that they don't want to see the final assembly

Trust me a lot of the brackets got fast forwarded

It seems like making things just for the sake of it, I really think a well engineered V-Tec mini fwd would be a far better car overall and more interesting with it. I think I was lost about 4 episodes back.

Dave!

I'm also starting to lose a bit of interest in the Mini, it's getting quite drawn out but I guess is earning them a few quid through Patreon so can't blame them if that is the case.

You might have seen it already, but Mighty Car Mods put a Honda B16B into Mini a while back:

A friend did some conversions after he saw how shoddy the Z car minis were made. I’m not up on my Honda engines but he put a 2.4 the right way round in a mini with a Clubman front end and my BIL and his Missus have a nice 1.6 in a normal front Mini. It had amazing off the line traction due to the engine rotation.

I don’t like how Minis drive though so don’t know any more than that

Dave!

[mr_jon]

Haltechs are so expensive, though! I appreciate they want recoup their R&D costs but...wow. Not sure MCM get them for free any more considering they have pinched one from a previous build for their current Civic project.

Got to say I'm a bit of over MCM. Early stuff was great, current stuff is a merch and sponsor-fest and the actual content is pretty poor. Anything that requires actual engineering type skills has to be left to someone else and given they appear to have fallen out with some of those guys, they are struggling for content more than 'look I bolted something on, I drilled something out by 2mm'. Not great.

[NGRhodes]

I guess I'm just a bit skeptical about next episode being them plugging it all together and then just turning the key and it working...

I imagine it won't be that straightfoward, but it may be simpler than it might appear - most sensors are variable voltage output, variable resistance output, or a 0 or 1 output and input (IE 0 or 5v) so if you feed the various values those represent into the ECU (IE a coolant sensor might be 1-5v representing 0-150dec linearly) then you're basically there. (yes I watch a lot of South Main Auto and the shit Eric can do with a basic multimeter and scope is eye opening)

Getting a base map running with the slightly different setup might pose some challenges, but at that stage you're basically tweeking fuel spark and air in a loose manner to get the thing started and make sure it doesn't shake itself apart, and I don't imagine they'd go further than that in one episode.

After that would be performance mapping, which I expect they'd spend more time (possibly an entire episode) on as getting it genuinely drivable on the road rather than being a highly strung laggy track monster is the more interesting part (to me at least).

And once the engine runs okay they are going to need time for chassis tuning (brakes, geometry, suspension set up ) and general ironing out lots of niggles.

[dan]

Question for the forum’s boffins:

Is their custom ECU so magic that they just plug all the relevant sensors, relays, actuators, etc etc into it and it self calibrates, knows what to do and sets the engine going? Or will episode 36 be entirely Richard writing lines of code so it knows which way up the camshaft is?

You probably don't want input from someone that actually does this for a living...but anyway.

The short answer is no. From memory they're using a Link ecu and some additional link sensors. Link do a bit of toyota stuff so there will be base maps floating around that will get the engine started that will have all of the crucial settings in like the crank trigger pattern and cam trigger (assuming it has cam sensors, I guess its modern enough) so that the thing actually syncs up and fires. Link's have tonnes of parameters built in and someone will need to spend hours on a laptop sat in the car going though them - there's a multitude of features you might never use that can affect whether the thing will start / run / perform etc.

The onboard toyota sensors like coolant and air will have their own linearisation tables (basically what Beany said about 0 - 5v) which they will hope are already set up in any base map they get, otherwise trying to reliably track down those numbers can be a nightmare. The additional link sensors they're fitting will need the numbers punching into the map so they read correctly but as Link are supplying those that should be straight forward.

Once the thing is running it'll want to be put straight on a dyno to be run in. This notion that seems to be out in the wider world that there'll be a map close enough out there to drive about on is absolute nonsense put about by people that really shouldn't talk about things they don't understand, no two engines are the same. Its a fresh build so if some random map has it running super rich it'll bore wash the brains out of it and it'll be fucked from day one.

You'd probably spend two days solid on something like that to get to a point where you've got a really solid map, start at the bottom and work your way up - by the time you've mapped the first few thousand revs you've as good as run the thing in so you continue working your way up the rev range with conservative ignition settings getting the fueling right. Once the fueling is in the ballpark you start tuning ignition timing, cam timing if you have it, boost etc.

[Rich B]

Question for the forum’s boffins:

Is their custom ECU so magic that they just plug all the relevant sensors, relays, actuators, etc etc into it and it self calibrates, knows what to do and sets the engine going? Or will episode 36 be entirely Richard writing lines of code so it knows which way up the camshaft is?

You probably don't want input from someone that actually does this for a living...but anyway.

why do you think he wouldn't?

[dan]

Is it not forum convention to eschew actual experience and knowledge of a subject any more!?

[Explosive Newt]

Is it not forum convention to eschew actual experience and knowledge of a subject any more!?

Don’t worry, I’m not tired of experts just yet especially as my day job involves being super boring about mitochondria and magnets…

So - it will plug and play to some extent (which is pretty amazing) but it will probably be way off given how bespoke the engine is, so they need to be straight on the dyno?

[dan]

Yep exactly that.

I imagine they’ll have a wide band lambda on it and will be able to turn the closed loop on initially to enable them to trundle around and have the ecu adjust the fueling on the fly so that they can drive it to the rolling road, but once it’s set up it’ll want the maximum allowed short term trim to be as small as possible, I usually set mine to 5% - I tune the fuel table to be as close to perfect as I can get it and only allow a tiny amount of trim, especially important on something boosted, as if you’re relying on the lambda sensor to keep the fueling right (which so many lazy tuners do) when the sensor fails, and they regularly do, you end up melting a piston.

[RobYob]

Someone claiming vast experience writes a wall of text flying in the face of conventional pub wisdom. What are we thinking, minion of a global conspiracy?

I'll crawl back under my rock

[DeskJockey]

I'm with @RobYob. We know @dan is wrong because he sets it to 5%. Everybody knows that you have to set it between 4.99% and 5.01%, everything else is just crazy and asking for premature CV boot failure.