Smart Motorways

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Jobbo
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Smart Motorways

Post by Jobbo »

The purpose of smart motorways is to increase capacity, most useful at peak times, by allowing all lane running. There have been enough accidents to cause a bit of a U-turn in policy on them, but now traffic is getting back towards pre-Covid levels, I've noticed something else fucking stupid about them. I use sections of the M6 and M5 each day which are now 4-lane without hard shoulder, controlled by overhead gantries to close a lane or lanes if required.

Basically, as soon as anyone breaks down/has a puncture/runs out of fuel a lane has to be closed. Previously they could simply pull up on the hard shoulder. There's an immediate loss of a lane which is normally open. It seems to me this has more of an impact on capacity than leaving the hard shoulder closed to running traffic at all times; the slightest incident causes far more in the way of jams and tailbacks than it would have before. It's all very well having dynamic traffic info from Google Maps et al, but if the motorway comes to a halt with 6 miles of queuing traffic that theoretical extra capacity is futile.

Yes, I'm currently sitting in the office still, waiting for the idiot who has crashed near southbound J10 of the M6 to be cleared up. Somebody did the same on the northbound carriageway around J10 this morning too, fucking up my journey to work. Bring on autonomous vehicles.
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Mito Man
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Re: Smart Motorways

Post by Mito Man »

Usually in Kent they seem to add a red X on 2 of the lanes whenever there’s a breakdown, thus closing an extra lane usually during the busiest period of the day :roll:

Also if a car has broken down 6 miles away why do they place the red X 6 miles before the incident and until about 2 miles after it.
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duncs500
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Re: Smart Motorways

Post by duncs500 »

Those red Xs are a nightmare: they put them on a few miles before the incident, great in theory, give traffic plenty of time to merge and keep everything moving.

In reality a number of cars pull out of the lane, thus clearing the way for a number of unscrupulous motorists to fly down the now clear lane and cut in at the scene of the accident, thus creating huge queues in the other open lanes as everyone else has to slow down and let them in.
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nuttinnew
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Re: Smart Motorways

Post by nuttinnew »

Jobbo wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:39 pm Priti Patel
I was going to suggest foolish driving is the cause of the motorway's woes but I'll go with that.
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Jobbo
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Re: Smart Motorways

Post by Jobbo »

Mito Man wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:13 pm Usually in Kent they seem to add a red X on 2 of the lanes whenever there’s a breakdown, thus closing an extra lane usually during the busiest period of the day :roll:

Also if a car has broken down 6 miles away why do they place the red X 6 miles before the incident and until about 2 miles after it.
Yeah, I get the same thing on the M5 on the section which is all-lane running (Bromsgrove to Worcester) - particularly later in the evening when there's no traffic, they cut it down to one or two lanes open and a 40 limit for miles and miles, just to cone off a short section of one lane for maintenance.

Seems to be the case that traffic flows are not prioritised on the roads any more.
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GG.
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Re: Smart Motorways

Post by GG. »

Jobbo wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:55 pm Yes, I'm currently sitting in the office still, waiting for the idiot who has crashed near southbound J10 of the M6 to be cleared up. Somebody did the same on the northbound carriageway around J10 this morning too, fucking up my journey to work. Bring on autonomous vehicles.
Man - what I'd give to be trapped in the office until only 6pm and then get to drive home! :lol:

Please stop with these humblebrag posts Simon ;)
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scotta
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Re: Smart Motorways

Post by scotta »

I linked a thread to this programme a while back.

It is seriously scary shit. They discover that most of the perceived tech that monitors the "Smart" motorway is ancient, shit and largely broken.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000dtqv

The daily mail (Yes i know but in fairness this is worth a read) had an undercover reporter work in the control centre for a story also. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... rator.html
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Jobbo
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Re: Smart Motorways

Post by Jobbo »

GG. wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:30 am
Jobbo wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:55 pm Yes, I'm currently sitting in the office still, waiting for the idiot who has crashed near southbound J10 of the M6 to be cleared up. Somebody did the same on the northbound carriageway around J10 this morning too, fucking up my journey to work. Bring on autonomous vehicles.
Man - what I'd give to be trapped in the office until only 6pm and then get to drive home! :lol:

Please stop with these humblebrag posts Simon ;)
:lol: I even left one of my employees in the office when I departed...
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nuttinnew
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Re: Smart Motorways

Post by nuttinnew »

Not sure where to post;
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/medway/new ... sh-258060/
I don't know why (experience?) but it's nagging away at me that this was caused by someone joining the motorway and pulling straight out into another lane - despite the slip road becoming the inside lane. It was either a van on its own or a van swerving out from behind someone because mgif, wiping out the motorcyclist and just carrying on continuing to ngaf. I don't know, I just have a feeling the rider was proficient and doing nowt wrong :? It happened at about eleven, the motorway is still closed now.
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Jobbo
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Re: Smart Motorways

Post by Jobbo »

Lane closure on the M5 this morning near Droitwich - fortunately not bad jams. The cause? A stranded car. A 71 plate Defender, demonstrating typical LR reliability in the Midlands. Embarrassing.
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nuttinnew
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Re: Smart Motorways

Post by nuttinnew »

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Jobbo
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Re: Smart Motorways

Post by Jobbo »

The bit of smart motorway between J13 and J11a of the M6 has been pretty random yesterday and today. Last night as I was going home, a gantry with speed cameras on it switched from NSL down to 50 just as I got to it - I am told there's a 30s or so grace period but I slammed on from 70 down to 50 anyway because there wasn't really any other traffic around (i.e. one other car visible - it was unusually quiet). Next gantry was 40 and then none of the following gantries had any speed limit signed at all - so technically it hadn't gone back to NSL because there was no end to the 40 limit. Nothing at all on the road to cause the speed limit to lower.

This morning there was a similar paid of speed limits, accompanied by the gantries saying first 'lane closure ahead' then 'slow vehicle joining'. Nothing there though and at least this time the NSL signs were lit on the next gantry.

In some ways I like the speed limit lowering which gives you advance notice of a hazard but when they come on for no reason they ruin the whole system.
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mik
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Re: Smart Motorways

Post by mik »

duncs500 wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:41 pm Those red Xs are a nightmare: they put them on a few miles before the incident, great in theory, give traffic plenty of time to merge and keep everything moving.

In reality a number of cars pull out of the lane, thus clearing the way for a number of unscrupulous motorists to fly down the now clear lane and cut in at the scene of the accident, thus creating huge queues in the other open lanes as everyone else has to slow down and let them in.
About 8 years ago I was running eldest miklet and a mate into Glasgow for a 1-off Saturday-morning job at a Comic-Con thing. Joined the Clydeside Expressway and quickly came across a red X in the outside lane (one of two lanes). As time was a bit tight - and aware of the strategy Duncs outlines above - I decided to be smart and ignore the first red X and pull in before the next one.

Mistake.

The next red X became visible as I rounded a sweeping bend, so I indicated to pull in. There were a number of cops dealing with a car on its roof, but two of the cops who weren't directly dealing with the incident were pulling over everyone who came round this bend in the outside lane - they knew we'd already passed one gantry showing an X.

They had a few offenders to deal with - luckily for me they were taking the approach of checking licenses - he told me before he called mine in that if I had any points already, I'd be about to receive some more. If my license was clean - he'd come back to me and explain my error. I therefore got away with a few minutes of entirely justified lecture, and left feeling appropriately stoopid. :oops:

More attentive to them now, I haven't passed through a red X since. I got my son and his mate to their job on time despite being held for 5+ mins by Mr Policeman, so I could easily have just suffered the 2-3mins of queue that I avoided.

(I think Mr Plod liked the burble the VXR8 was making - I was desperately hoping that he didn't ask me to switch the engine off, as it (of course) had a built-in vanity rev-flare on startup, which really isn't what you want in this sort of situation).
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Re: Smart Motorways

Post by nuttinnew »

Broccers wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 2:46 pm M1 was ok tho, glad its no longer 50 as they've finished the death trap smart motorway. One broken down van was a sitting duck. Horrifying really. No lights, warning, nothing. :shock:

While I don't entirely disagree, I had an instance a couple of weeks back on the M25 where as I was slowing to an approaching gantry signed 50mph I was undertaken at speed on the hard shoulder. Upon rejoining the carriageway at the back of the stopped lane of traffic the reduced limit was a warning of - and after heavily braking to a standstill the driver duly half extricated himself through the window of his motionless vehicle to gesture he had dry roasted nuts and while I couldn't hear what he was saying I think it was, in the lingo of those of dubious parentage, "you want for coffee?".

Whether or not smart motorways present more hazards, dumbcunts will always create them. In the situation you saw, the lane could have been red crossed, speed limit reduced, and you'd still have some fucktard continuing along it at 70.
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Mito Man
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Re: Smart Motorways

Post by Mito Man »

They need to be renamed moron motorways. Just a few days ago about a mile before the smart motorway there was an accident. Car on hard shoulder. Enter smart motorway with every gantry saying “accident” and 50 limit for another 8 miles :roll:
The whole thing is pointless if you think about it. All drivers of vehicles must not be blind. Therefore all drivers should see hazards. Therefore having a stupid gantry tell you something shouldn’t be required.
See also all the other shit they post. “Fog” “wind” “rain” “debris” “pedestrian” Well fuck me sideways. They’re also awfully useless in their ambiguity. And I’ve said it before but over on the continent they don’t have smart motorways but just those digital signs which tell you the incident and the exact km marker so you know precisely within 100 metres where it is. Over here who the fuck knows.
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Re: Smart Motorways

Post by Broccers »

nuttinnew wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 8:54 pm
Broccers wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 2:46 pm M1 was ok tho, glad its no longer 50 as they've finished the death trap smart motorway. One broken down van was a sitting duck. Horrifying really. No lights, warning, nothing. :shock:

While I don't entirely disagree, I had an instance a couple of weeks back on the M25 where as I was slowing to an approaching gantry signed 50mph I was undertaken at speed on the hard shoulder. Upon rejoining the carriageway at the back of the stopped lane of traffic the reduced limit was a warning of - and after heavily braking to a standstill the driver duly half extricated himself through the window of his motionless vehicle to gesture he had dry roasted nuts and while I couldn't hear what he was saying I think it was, in the lingo of those of dubious parentage, "you want for coffee?".

Whether or not smart motorways present more hazards, dumbcunts will always create them. In the situation you saw, the lane could have been red crossed, speed limit reduced, and you'd still have some fucktard continuing along it at 70.
The van didnt even have its hazards on - it was an accident waiting to happen. I think we agree they are dangerous :)
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nuttinnew
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Re: Smart Motorways

Post by nuttinnew »

Broccers wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 9:05 pm The van didnt even have its hazards on - it was an accident waiting to happen. I think we agree they are dangerous :)
I bet he had them on when he was stopped on double yellows earlier :P

There has always been the chance of breaking down away from the hard shoulder and not being able to get to it, the misrepresentation/bare lie/bullpoop smart motorways were sold on was stopped vehicle detection technology. That would have been A Good Thing on the roads we already had, but to use it to manipulate a change when it doesn't exist is criminal, as is (in many areas) modifying the hard shoulder to a running lane and adding refuges when the extra cost, land take, and inconvenience of adding a new full length hard shoulder would have been minimal - and that's before retrofitting additional refuges, as has been done in some places.

No amount of road planning will make people pay attention or take responsibility for their own actions though.
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