Dogecoin etc

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Jobbo
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Re: Dogecoin etc

Post by Jobbo »

V8Granite wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:39 am as soon as a share had a price drop the company involved would fail.
Absolutely not the case, Dave - the share price could fall to zero but if the company is still trading and paying its bills as they fall due, it's solvent. If shares can't be traded (e.g. a private company rather than a quoted one) the shares are impossible to sell but that's no indication at all of the financial health of the company. Share prices for quoted companies will generally follow the fortunes of the underlying company, but they do not drive the company - it's the opposite way round.

Even if a company became insolvent, the shareholders would (should) get something back in the liquidation of the company's assets. That's an important baseline value to establish the minimum worth of a share.
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Re: Dogecoin etc

Post by V8Granite »

I was not aware of that, I thought that share price = company value = ability to operate well.

Dave!
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ZedLeg
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Re: Dogecoin etc

Post by ZedLeg »

V8Granite wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:39 am
ZedLeg wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:26 am I didn't realise it was good investing practice to keep buying into shares that are shitting themselves :lol:
If people didn’t then no-one would make any money and as soon as a share had a price drop the company involved would fail.

RR Shares are worth just 10% of what they were about 4 years ago and if people were selling whenever a dip carried on the company would have gone bust a long time ago.

There is a skill in it I have no doubt but those making money already know how, those without the skill have to be in it for the long term on the idea that the company is viable a long time into the future.

Dave!
There's a difference between keeping shares you have to ride out trouble and encouraging people to buy into an investment that's definitely going to be worth less tomorrow than it is today. I've seen enough stock broker movies to know that's bad practice :lol:
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Mito Man
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Re: Dogecoin etc

Post by Mito Man »

ZedLeg wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:26 am I didn't realise it was good investing practice to keep buying into shares that are shitting themselves :lol:
This, I thought WallStreetBets was just a meme but to actually heed their advice :shock:
How about not having a sig at all?
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Broccers
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Re: Dogecoin etc

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Jobbo wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:44 am
V8Granite wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:39 am as soon as a share had a price drop the company involved would fail.
Absolutely not the case, Dave - the share price could fall to zero but if the company is still trading and paying its bills as they fall due, it's solvent. If shares can't be traded (e.g. a private company rather than a quoted one) the shares are impossible to sell but that's no indication at all of the financial health of the company. Share prices for quoted companies will generally follow the fortunes of the underlying company, but they do not drive the company - it's the opposite way round.

Even if a company became insolvent, the shareholders would (should) get something back in the liquidation of the company's assets. That's an important baseline value to establish the minimum worth of a share.
Im sure Jobbo said buy lloyds at 47 and take the div.
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Re: Dogecoin etc

Post by Jobbo »

Broccers wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:21 pm
Jobbo wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:44 am
V8Granite wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:39 am as soon as a share had a price drop the company involved would fail.
Absolutely not the case, Dave - the share price could fall to zero but if the company is still trading and paying its bills as they fall due, it's solvent. If shares can't be traded (e.g. a private company rather than a quoted one) the shares are impossible to sell but that's no indication at all of the financial health of the company. Share prices for quoted companies will generally follow the fortunes of the underlying company, but they do not drive the company - it's the opposite way round.

Even if a company became insolvent, the shareholders would (should) get something back in the liquidation of the company's assets. That's an important baseline value to establish the minimum worth of a share.
Im sure Jobbo said buy lloyds at 47 and take the div.
I said that at 40p, and despite there being no dividend since you'd still be ~10% up now. The reason for this view? If you liquidated all of Lloyds' assets each share would get about 40p back...
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Re: Dogecoin etc

Post by Broccers »

Jobbo wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 4:27 pm
Broccers wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 3:21 pm
Jobbo wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:44 am

Absolutely not the case, Dave - the share price could fall to zero but if the company is still trading and paying its bills as they fall due, it's solvent. If shares can't be traded (e.g. a private company rather than a quoted one) the shares are impossible to sell but that's no indication at all of the financial health of the company. Share prices for quoted companies will generally follow the fortunes of the underlying company, but they do not drive the company - it's the opposite way round.

Even if a company became insolvent, the shareholders would (should) get something back in the liquidation of the company's assets. That's an important baseline value to establish the minimum worth of a share.
Im sure Jobbo said buy lloyds at 47 and take the div.
I said that at 40p, and despite there being no dividend since you'd still be ~10% up now. The reason for this view? If you liquidated all of Lloyds' assets each share would get about 40p back...
Usually good at quoting your own posts. Where is it?
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Re: Dogecoin etc

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Jobbo wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:17 pm I bought my LLOY at 32p; if they're 40p or less they look good value against the net realisable value of the assets. Which I guess is why they're now at 47p. There has been plenty of time to get in and buy them below 40p though; they're not as volatile as crypto :lol:
Utter bullshit as usual.
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Re: Dogecoin etc

Post by Gavster »

ZedLeg wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:26 am I didn't realise it was good investing practice to keep buying into shares that are shitting themselves :lol:
If you dollar cost average, then you buy on the way up and the way down. It's a good investment strategy for people who aren't fiendishly watching the market and is based on the assumption that the market, on average, has an upward trend over time. Rather than expecting to have savant-like timing and perfectly call the top or bottom, you simply spread your investments out over time. Sometimes you buy when it's high, sometimes low.

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Re: Dogecoin etc

Post by Sundayjumper »

V8Granite wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:56 am I was not aware of that, I thought that share price = company value...
The bit I've highlighted is true, more or less. When you buy shares in a company you - literally - own a share of the company. A baseline value for those shares, as Jobbo says, is the net value of the company's assets divided by the number of shares. That's the logical part. If the shares trade at a premium above that then it's an indication that people expect the company to grow (increase its net assets with corresponding increase in share price) and/or be profitable and distribute profit as dividends. That's the speculative part.

Which brings us back to Bitcoin et al, which unlike a listed company, have no underlying assets on which to pin a value. This causes much consternation in certain groups :lol: :lol:
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Re: Dogecoin etc

Post by Mito Man »

Gavster wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 5:38 pm
ZedLeg wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:26 am I didn't realise it was good investing practice to keep buying into shares that are shitting themselves :lol:
If you dollar cost average, then you buy on the way up and the way down. It's a good investment strategy for people who aren't fiendishly watching the market and is based on the assumption that the market, on average, has an upward trend over time. Rather than expecting to have savant-like timing and perfectly call the top or bottom, you simply spread your investments out over time. Sometimes you buy when it's high, sometimes low.

Image
The key bit here is that the market on average will go up over time i.e. a major index. Because indexes keep chopping and changing their constituents every quarter to select the strongest companies. Something like 90% of professional traders and investment funds fail to beat the market.

Cherry picking stocks is much more risky. LLOY is down 92% since it's peak in 1998. You could have bought it in 1999 thinking its a great deal as it's 30% of highs, only for it to then fall forever more.
How about not having a sig at all?
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Re: Dogecoin etc

Post by Broccers »

Mito Man wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:16 pm
Gavster wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 5:38 pm
ZedLeg wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:26 am I didn't realise it was good investing practice to keep buying into shares that are shitting themselves :lol:
If you dollar cost average, then you buy on the way up and the way down. It's a good investment strategy for people who aren't fiendishly watching the market and is based on the assumption that the market, on average, has an upward trend over time. Rather than expecting to have savant-like timing and perfectly call the top or bottom, you simply spread your investments out over time. Sometimes you buy when it's high, sometimes low.

Image
The key bit here is that the market on average will go up over time i.e. a major index. Because indexes keep chopping and changing their constituents every quarter to select the strongest companies. Something like 90% of professional traders and investment funds fail to beat the market.

Cherry picking stocks is much more risky. LLOY is down 92% since it's peak in 1998. You could have bought it in 1999 thinking its a great deal as it's 30% of highs, only for it to then fall forever more.
Don't tell Jobbo he didn't even buy his at 25p.

Honestly the utter crap I'm reading here makes me laugh. Stick to the day jobs. Lloyds long term worst investment ever, and I know.
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Re: Dogecoin etc

Post by Broccers »

Also ask anyone who's in the s&p500 ytd

Ponzi at it's finest.
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Re: Dogecoin etc

Post by Swervin_Mervin »

Broccers wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:25 pm Also ask anyone who's in the s&p500 ytd

Ponzi at it's finest.
Who the fvck invests in the likes of the S&P500 for the short term :lol:
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Re: Dogecoin etc

Post by Jobbo »

Jobbo wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:17 pm I bought my LLOY at 32p; if they're 40p or less they look good value against the net realisable value of the assets. Which I guess is why they're now at 47p. There has been plenty of time to get in and buy them below 40p though; they're not as volatile as crypto :lol:
Broccers, i see you found my post. Easy enough to search ‘LLOY’. And it’s exactly what I said last time - 40p, based on net realisable value.

Mito, if you stick to NRV as a value comparator then you’ll rarely find a share that low, but it means there are sufficient assets to back up the value. I’m not talking 90s, I’m talking now.
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Re: Dogecoin etc

Post by Broccers »

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:42 pm
Broccers wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 8:25 pm Also ask anyone who's in the s&p500 ytd

Ponzi at it's finest.
Who the fvck invests in the likes of the S&P500 for the short term :lol:
The point is you have to start at some level. Probably continue being down for a few years.

Going back to Lloyds for example pre covid 60p

There's no ppi going out, divs down and they are making shit loads of money. Why is the price not 80 or 90p?

I'd say one reason is they give shares to staff, let them also buy them at 50 percent discount. All a big con and gambling.
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Re: Dogecoin etc

Post by Carlos »

I don't see Lloyds ever being the powerhouse they were. Their model still relies on them having a High Street captive audience and then cross selling shit to those customers.

As their core customers die off the younger generation doesnt even bank with them let alone the poor value lending and insurance etc.
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Re: Dogecoin etc

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Broccers wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:37 am All a big con and gambling.
Good at spotting those, are you?
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Re: Dogecoin etc

Post by Broccers »

Jobbo wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:24 am
Broccers wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 7:37 am All a big con and gambling.
Good at spotting those, are you?
Yes mate which is why I sold all my lloyds in the mid 50s in jan 20 :lol:

The crypto at the moment is a great oppo long term.
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Re: Dogecoin etc

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Ah, burned were you? Is that why you didn't see the value in LLOY at 32p?
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