6pm kerfew for men

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Gavin
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Re: 6pm kerfew for men

Post by Gavin »

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:09 pm
Gavin wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:09 am
Beany wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:04 am

And the usual, the devoid of thinking are fucking lapping it up - because it's not something they care about being protested about.
Yup. The whole "I didn't protest when they came for,..."
Thoughts on the Hate Crime Bill that's been passed up there in the 4th Reich? ;)
Well I just read through the Explanatory Notes on the Bill and it seems to be largely fine. I guess I am missing something shocking and draconian that is contained within it though?

What occurred to me is that given this has been through a pr based Parliament and presumably the Tories, Greens etc have had a chance to offer amendments etc then it should be scrutinised and anything glaring should betaken out. But then that is how a democracy works and clearly it is misfiring right now.

What do you think about it? And I mean you, not what have you read in a newspaper, which in all likelihood will be anti SNP, regardless of content.
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ZedLeg
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Re: 6pm kerfew for men

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It’s the extended powers around stirring up hatred and the possession of inflammatory material that I question. Also the change in rules regarding performance of materials which might be in breach of the bill.

It gives the police/government an unreasonable amount of power over what people are allowed to say.
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Gavin
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Re: 6pm kerfew for men

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ZedLeg wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:50 pm It’s the extended powers around stirring up hatred and the possession of inflammatory material that I question. Also the change in rules regarding performance of materials which might be in breach of the bill.

It gives the police/government an unreasonable amount of power over what people are allowed to say.
It is amazing how often existing laws cover everything that is being allegedly addressed in any new bill being passed.
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ZedLeg
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Re: 6pm kerfew for men

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These are specifically new additions. The hate crime bill is an extension of an older public order bill, I can't remember it's exact name.
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Swervin_Mervin
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Re: 6pm kerfew for men

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Gavin wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:56 pm What do you think about it? And I mean you, not what have you read in a newspaper, which in all likelihood will be anti SNP, regardless of content.
Well, for starters, as it's unlikely to affect me much, I'm ultimately not going to lose any sleep over it. However, it's right up there with Patel's proposed Bill imo in terms of worrying draconian powers being introduced. They seem like 2 sides of the same coin really - one covering what you can say and one covering what you can do. It's a disturbing turn of events.

My mentioning of it was more that the Scottish one has passed into law and yet has barely seen any press at all. And in particular you always seem willing to let so much slide on by when the can-do-no-wrong Nationalists (let's refer to them as that, in the way we would any other nationalists) get up to some worrying things but if there's any sniff of anything anti-Tory you're on it like a tramp on chips.
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ZedLeg
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Re: 6pm kerfew for men

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Swervin_Mervin wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:45 pm
My mentioning of it was more that the Scottish one has passed into law and yet has barely seen any press at all.
Yeah, the only folk that are really talking about it are the free speech warriors I eluded to earlier.

The only people that voted against it were the scottish tories and some terfs who wanted biological sex as a protected characteristic so I guess it was easier to convince people who weren't really paying attention that it was probably ok.

The SNP is slowly losing support amongst people I know but personally the greens supporting this bill has left a bad taste in my mouth as well. Where else do you go though? Have to start my own progressive leftist party :lol:
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Swervin_Mervin
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Re: 6pm kerfew for men

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Yeah I was pretty surprised at the Greens supporting it as well. Pretty disappointing really. I just hope the Patel bill gets voted down - have Labour made their minds up yet whether they'll sit back or grow a backbone?
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ZedLeg
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Re: 6pm kerfew for men

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Last I heard about it was a reply tweet from Dianne Abbott saying no when someone asked if they were being whipped to vote against it.

I expect the usual Kier Starmer response of nothing followed by a TV appearance where he agrees with the Tories :lol:
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Re: 6pm kerfew for men

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Swervin_Mervin wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:45 pm
My mentioning of it was more that the Scottish one has passed into law and yet has barely seen any press at all. And in particular you always seem willing to let so much slide on by when the can-do-no-wrong Nationalists (let's refer to them as that, in the way we would any other nationalists) get up to some worrying things but if there's any sniff of anything anti-Tory you're on it like a tramp on chips.
:lol: I'm not the only one that's noticed then.
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Gavin
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Re: 6pm kerfew for men

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I can only comment on stories I am aware of and was completely oblivious to the Scottish Bill. Clearly need to widen my scope for media stories.

I am not blind to the flaws of SNP politicians or their running of the country but it is hard to find actual info without twists.

SNP are a bit shit at education for instance but not really the subject in hand.

I do know I would trust NS long before I would BJ. On anything.
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ZedLeg
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Re: 6pm kerfew for men

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Gavin wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:20 am
I do know I would trust NS long before I would BJ. On anything.
I can't say I trust either of them that much tbh. Like most SNP politicians she'll say whatever it takes to stay in a position to push for a new indy ref. As a party they don't have any core values beyond stay in power.
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Re: 6pm kerfew for men

Post by Swervin_Mervin »

ZedLeg wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:12 am
Gavin wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:20 am
I do know I would trust NS long before I would BJ. On anything.
I can't say I trust either of them that much tbh. Like most SNP politicians she'll say whatever it takes to stay in a position to push for a new indy ref. As a party they don't have any core values beyond stay in power.
I don't even think the indyref is her primary goal - she's gunning for a spot in the EU I reckon. Tje indyref is just a means to an end.

I'd trust either of them less than most politicians, and I wouldn't trust most politicians even if they told me the sky was blue. Hence why phrases like Tory scum wind me up. A) they're all as bad as each other, and B) that way of talking oabout poltiics is the route to hardline division, and that's precisely what's got us into the mess we currently have with what seems to now be just a 1 party system in the UK (and Scotland as well it seems to me as an outsider).
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Gavin
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Re: 6pm kerfew for men

Post by Gavin »

ZedLeg wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:12 am
Gavin wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:20 am
I do know I would trust NS long before I would BJ. On anything.
I can't say I trust either of them that much tbh. Like most SNP politicians she'll say whatever it takes to stay in a position to push for a new indy ref. As a party they don't have any core values beyond stay in power.
It would be nice to have viable opposition in both parliaments. In Scotland we have the SNP and the "vote for us just cos we aren't SNP - Tory party".

English politics (union politics?) seems to have very little direction for Labour at the moment and the mess WM is in, is largely why I would prefer Independence.

Whether we will be "allowed" to even vote on it again remains to be seen and I do not expect the campaign, should it happen, to be any less horrific than last time.

How we can get away from the whole "If you disagree with me you are wrong an an idiot" and the "I am entitled to my opinion" as a last bastion of someone without facts or knowledge I do not know.

I naively would like politicians to actually represent me, and people like me, rather than obsessing with any one subject, whether that is Independence, Brexit etc.

I would also like politicians of all flavours to have a yellow card red card system for lying so that corruption, lies, false promises at election time are all punishable and actionable.
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Re: 6pm kerfew for men

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The thing is that under a PR parliament the Greens are a viable alternative to the other parties but they definitely have a bit of an image problem. A bit middle class and exculsionary to anyone that's not a birkenstock wearing hippy :lol:.

The tories will get the same votes they always get, old people and orangemen. But if the other parties can get their acts together we would be able to break away from the do nothing token gestures and internal arguing of the SNP.
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