Taking the knee

[duncs500]

What @dinny_g said.

[Broccers]

Sums it up

[ZedLeg]

Didn't take you long to start posting GB News broccers

I assume you've just set your TV to the channel and broken the remote.

[V8Granite]

Taking the knee shouldn’t be a thing at all, it’s linked to something I think has no place in football.

But the people doing it have said it isn't... Do you not believe them ??

Besides, "taking the knee" has been a symbolic gesture used by the black community to highlight inequality since the 18th century.

From 1780:



This was referenced by Martin Luther King in the 60's when adopted the same symbol for the same reasons.



It was Martin Luther King that Colin Kaepernik was referencing when he started taking the knee in 2016.

Black Lives Matter first appeared as a movement in 2013 and wasn't associated with taking the knee until the momentum of Kaepernik's started to take hold.

People in the stadium are not booing because they disagree with the gesture. If players stood with heads bowed, or raised a fist, or hopped on one leg, they would be booed.

People in the stadium are booing for one reason and one reason only - and I think deep down, you probably know that

Edit - and one more thing. And this NOT aimed at Granite Dave or Broccers AT ALL. I want to be clear on that. it's aimed at the people in the stadiums who are booing.

IF we give the booers the benefit of the doubt for a moment and allow for the fact that that they are complaining about the gesture only . The fact that a group of White People, who have never experienced the injustice that the gesture is being used to highlight, feel they have an input into the gesture that is used to highlight injustice... is staggeringly ironic

I do not believe people booing are racist in the main, I believe people booing are sick of politics being brought into a sports game.

Some people just want to enjoy a game of football and get away from the crap of everyday life.

If people did this for every inequality in the world (I don’t belittle any of them, horrific things are happening everywhere in the world) then we would be a nation of depressed people wondering how they can possibly go on.

Wanting to be in the moment and enjoy something for what it is shouldn’t be mixed in with serious issues. It’s a joyless and depressing way to go about things. It’s the reason I keep away from day to day news and wonder if throwing a guilt trip at generations of people isn’t just another way to make people feel better about themselves in a narcissistic way. There are far better ways to tackle injustice in the world.

Dave!

[dinny_g]

It's 5 seconds at the start of the game...

I can't say I agree with you Dave. I don't see this as a "Politics thing". It's far more fundamental than that. But I understand you will probably have a view point coming from a more informed place, globally, based on your working life, where you go in the world etc.

[ZedLeg]

Aye, while I agree that we shouldn't immerse ourselves in the bad news of the world at all times. To turn a blind eye to something that is still happening so you can have a nice day is just perpetuating the issue.

[V8Granite]

It's 5 seconds at the start of the game...

I can't say I agree with you Dave but I understand you will probably have a view point coming from a more informed place, globally, based on your working life, where you go in the world etc.

Dave and Dinny go to the pub for the first time.

“Hi Dinny, I’m Dave from the geeky car club, by the way, my friends son was abused at school and brain disease is killing my lovely neighbour over the road. Is yours a Doom Bar?”

You don’t think being reminded in every part of life about the injustices in the world doesn’t create anger, frustration and depression ?

My kids aren’t racist or even see race, discussing about the injustice in the world will just make them think differently about the person and just pander to them or make them act differently, which in an equal society is the exact opposite of what you want to happen.

Be decent to those you meet, don’t stand for bullying, be kind to your neighbour. Pretty simple rules imo and doesn’t need aggression from any side to follow.

The idea that a mass event can truly change the minds of those who think a skin colour determines your value in society is naive in the extreme. It’s evolutionary by people’s actions, not by being discussed again and again.

Dave!

[V8Granite]

Aye, while I agree that we shouldn't immerse ourselves in the bad news of the world at all times. To turn a blind eye to something that is still happening so you can have a nice day is just perpetuating the issue.

Far from it.

My Nan called black people darkies as she group up in an age where it was more of a common sight. It was what they learnt. No racist intent.

My parents called them black people and some children were half cast, it’s how they were taught. No racist intent.

Now my kids have 2 friends who have mixed race parents. They just call them by their names. Colour has never been mentioned apart from my youngest asking why that man was black. I said originally a long time ago his parents were from the Carribean and that’s how they look. He said ok and that’s it.

It’s evolution and ignorance being removed naturally as each generation learn.

I have no doubt that some things I say now will be seen as abhorrent if my eventual grandkids heard me say it. Language and people evolve naturally.

Dave!

[ZedLeg]

That only happens because people talk about it though.

If you ignore things, nothing changes.

[V8Granite]

That only happens because people talk about it though.

If you ignore things, nothing changes.

Do you think there is less racial tension in the country than there was 2 years ago ?

Would evolutionary change not have carried on ?

We never learnt not to say half cast, language changed, experience changed and we learnt that it was not the right thing to say. There wasn’t a March through the town and we were all educated.

Dave!

[ZedLeg]

They may not have happened in your town, that doesn't mean they didn't happen.

Things don't happen just because, I agree that language change is evolutionary but evolution is usually driven by environment. It doesn't happen in a vacuum.

[V8Granite]

That only happens because people talk about it though.

If you ignore things, nothing changes.

We agreed on too much of late, we must return to the status quo

Not talking about it doesn’t mean ignoring it though. If one of my kids said or did something in-appropriate I’d bring them up on it. If we saw something in-appropriate we wouldn’t ignore it. What I believed 10 years ago was different than now, my views changed and evolved and that has changed what I think of situations.

Dave!

[Swervin_Mervin]

Dave - you're not a goon that regularly attends football matches and hurls racist abuse. I think you need to bear in mind that some people, fortunately a minority of d1ckheads, do need reminding that such behaviour is not acceptable.

[ZedLeg]

If you bring up when someone does something inappropriate that is talking about it. That's all the various sports people are trying to do, use their position to draw attention to something so we can discuss it.

[V8Granite]

They may not have happened in your town, that doesn't mean they didn't happen.

Things don't happen just because, I agree that language change is evolutionary but evolution is usually driven by environment. It doesn't happen in a vacuum.

I completely agree it won’t happen in a vacuum, it won’t happen with a loudhailer either. It’s gone too far to the shouters on each side.

Dave!

[V8Granite]

If you bring up when someone does something inappropriate that is talking about it. That's all the various sports people are trying to do, use their position to draw attention to something so we can discuss it.

No, they are doing it in the wrong arena. They aren’t doing anything but pissing people off on both sides. Football is a tribal thing and they are only going to get pushback from the relatively small minority and make the problem seem far worse than it is.

In America they went from…..

Stupid cop killing someone
Mass riots
Old people being screamed at for not complying

What happened to the moderate discussion, it disappeared in a wave of hatred from both sides.

Dave!

[V8Granite]

I’m bailing out, I’m even winding myself up by talking about it

Dave!

[dinny_g]

Edit - point removed

[Broccers]

Scotland are playing today - they didnt take the knee.

When Scotland play England they will take the knee.

Bizarre.

[drcarlos]

Scotland are playing today - they didnt take the knee.

When Scotland play England they will take the knee.

Bizarre.

None of the other teams doing it, even ones that have players that play in England?

Does that mean it's not the players choice as being said by the FA and that they are being told to?

A big corporation bullying it's workers? Nah never.