Porschemissions

[mik]

Not very surprised.

https://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/203026/po ... estigation

[nuttinnew]

Not very surprised.

Why not?

[mik]

VW group.

And I suspect they were “all” doing it - rewards too tempting....

[nuttinnew]

Fair enough. There're doubtless more manufacturers to come. I don't know if the general public will care any more or just dismiss it as old news.

[unzippy]

I still don't really get it.

It's a stone cold fact that MPG figures are created under test conditions in a lab and are unobtainable in the real world. Why would emissions be expected to be different?

[mik]

Cos govt bodies have built tax structures around these, so if your car can sense that it is doing the official test and revert to a low emissions map for engine & gearbox, you’re no longer just fooling John Q Citizen, you’re also reducing the government purse.

[RobYob]

Enough engineers and lawyers spend years pouring over legislation to find ways of "optimising" performance. Hence the widly optimistic fuel economy numbers. Everyone is keeping an eye on others homework.

That's where VW strung themselves up, they built entire product lines around a loophole and managed to keep it secret for years.

I doubt many other companies have had as a sucessful a strategy and the opportunity for both profit and secrecy.

[RobYob]

You can fall down a rabbit hole very quickly.

Years ago a Cayman R owner sued Prsche because of what was an incredibly lazily disguised pass-by noise mode.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/top ... 548863&i=0

This lead to him making a freedom of information request about emmissions compliance.
https://panopticonblog.com/wp-content/u ... ieslik.pdf

At that point I give up trying to tie threads together, but it would be incredible if the noise mode inadvertantly revealed the much more secret and (and profitable) emmissions cheats.

[mik]

Bit of a tangent, but it’s being annoying me all morning. Found a copy of an early Metro ad (still your beating heart Harry) with its rather fanciful claim (which was apparently achieved on the flat at a steady 30mph - no idea how long for)

[integrale_evo]

Probably not that far from the truth, although I expect it was calculated rather than real world.

My mito will show high 60s at a constant 40mph,so much as breathe on the accelerator and it drops rapidly though.

Remember a metro is properly tiny compared to today’s small cars, and only weighed about 800kg.

[integrale_evo]

Lupo 3l claimed 3litres/100miles which works out as 94mpg.

But yeah, because vw

[Nathan]

I doubt many other companies have had as a sucessful a strategy and the opportunity for both profit and secrecy.

I am incredulous that it took nearly 10 years for someone to actually independently test these emissions on the road like this :



'Breakthrough: new Bosch diesel technology provides solution to NOx problem'

^ Ironic given that Bosch were the ones who invented this trick mode and offered it to car manufacturers for this very reason

[nuttinnew]

^ They could have put it in a roof box

Lupo 3l claimed 3litres/100miles which works out as 94mpg.

But yeah, because vw

They'll do it, as will the A2 3L (perhaps more likely to than the Lupo). A pity they never made them rhd Years ago, over 300 driving normally miles, a Jetta Formel E I drove did 50mpg. Also years ago, overall emissions were given/talked about, not just co2 (at least that was the case in whatever mags I was reading at the time).

[Jobbo]

That's where VW strung themselves up, they built entire product lines around a loophole and managed to keep it secret for years.

They were all at it - Merc have been in the press this week after agreeing a settlement in the US, and they are by no means alone, just the most recently in the press.

[Nathan]

That's where VW strung themselves up, they built entire product lines around a loophole and managed to keep it secret for years.

They were all at it - Merc have been in the press this week after agreeing a settlement in the US, and they are by no means alone, just the most recently in the press.

Yes. The figures they were all quoting defy physics (and chemistry)

Impossible to make the power with such low NoX values

[Gwaredd]

Impossible to make the power with such low NoX values

Indeed. You either have good power and good Mpg but poor NOX emmisions, good power, good NOX emmisions but low Mpg or low power, good NOX emissions and good Mpg. You cannot have all 3. VW had all 3, hence the red flag being allerted by other manufacturers who played the game (Toyota etc).

In reality, owners would rather have good power and Mpg and to hell with the emissions, but now there's a bit of compo up for grabs, they're all playing the eco card. I'll wager 99.9% of owners would have bought the car had they known about the higher than average NOX emissions simply becuase they were more powerful than VW's rivals and cheaper to run.

[Mito Man]

I don’t blame the people when in some cases you may be offered a full buy back on a 10 year old car.

[integrale_evo]

I don’t think anyone wants compensation because the emissions are higher than they’re supposed to be, they want compensation because their car is now worth less and harder to sell than it was and many people report that the official vw remap ‘fix’ makes them worse to drive.

[Gwaredd]

Fair point(s).

I wonder how much power they lost after the official remap?

ETA. Just looked. Prices don't seem to have been affected at all!

[Coaster1]

You can fall down a rabbit hole very quickly.

Years ago a Cayman R owner sued Prsche because of what was an incredibly lazily disguised pass-by noise mode.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/top ... 548863&i=0

This lead to him making a freedom of information request about emmissions compliance.
https://panopticonblog.com/wp-content/u ... ieslik.pdf

At that point I give up trying to tie threads together, but it would be incredible if the noise mode inadvertantly revealed the much more secret and (and profitable) emmissions cheats.

I remember this!