The EV Apocalypse

[V8Granite]

I work in power stations all day and everything is fine. I only had a problem once with an 8.5MW alternator which once past about 5mw made the screen on my laptop go funny and then die.

When I stand in the street with a birds nest of cabling in Bangladesh though, you can hear a weird buzz that you can also feel in your teeth.

Might get a mobile faraday cage much like a Victorian lady’s dress frame.

Dave!

[DaveE]

I really enjoyed Harry's i-Pace video.

Nice to get a more real-world/balanced view of things.

What struck me is that (in terms of where the efficiency is):

ICE = poor in town, good on a motorway

EV = good in town*, bad on a motorway

* more opportunity for re-gen etc.

I still think in basic senses, electric is the future (simplicity, efficiency, emissions at the point of use etc)

The irony is that they make most sense an an urban environment - where it's a lot harder to be able to recharge easily (at home, say) i.e. people living in an urban environment rarely have a garage, driveway, specific/reserved space etc.

But I'm not a fan of hydrogen either - less efficient, still lots of the downsides of ICE (complexity, moving parts, ancillaries etc)

[Mito Man]

I think hydrogen cars have an incredible power the clean up the environment. An electric car does nothing for environment aside from getting you from A to B without polluting locally. A hydrogen fuel cell will filter a vast quantity of air, having hundreds of thousands of them in a busy urban area where there is no space for dense woodlands will clean the air substantially and be a good trade off compared to the resources used to make and fuel it. Hopefully it’s something that catches on and isn’t just killed off by the current crop of EVs.

[NotoriousREV]

Hydrogen is a great way of dealing with the whole “what happens when the wind doesn’t blow/sun doesn’t shine” argument. If you use solar and wind excess energy (when supply exceeds demand) to electrolyse hydrogen and then burn hydrogen in fuel cells when demand is higher, it becomes an efficient storage mechanism. You can do it at any scale, too. You could have PV solar, an electrolyser and fuel cell at home to generate a decent chunk of your own power or you can have multi-MW farms doing the same thing.

I think that in the future we’ll see trucks and buses etc. (ie vehicles with a high duty cycle) being hydrogen fuel cell whilst most private cars will be battery, but with a few fuel cell cars for this who do want to go for 4 hours+ at a time.

[JonMad]

The irony is that they make most sense an an urban environment

...where the total mileage they'll be driven and higher purchase/finance costs makes them less favourable than a similar petrol or diesel car.

[NotoriousREV]

[Beany]

It’s around 85% efficient according to the old BMW press release. FWIW a Nissan Leaf plugged in is 90% efficient under good weather conditions so it’s hardly the gross waste of electricity that you’re making out.

Did a bit more reading on this earlier today when I was skiving more productively, and it turns out that they reckon that sort of efficiency isn't unrealistic with higher power applications - but they are notably quiet on the accuracy required to get it in the much higher power instances, IE the 100+kw ones at the research stage.

So I'll eat my words on that one

[ShockDiamonds]

I missed that in the various press releases and drives etc...somewhat out of the BMW scene these days - we're saying now that the 530e has inductive charging? So I could drive home, park up, step from the car lock it as normal and without doing anything, it starts charging? That, in all honesty, would be bloody handy.

[Zonda_]

I missed that in the various press releases and drives etc...somewhat out of the BMW scene these days - we're saying now that the 530e has inductive charging? So I could drive home, park up, step from the car lock it as normal and without doing anything, it starts charging? That, in all honesty, would be bloody handy.

I think it can be specced yes. Why have hydrogen cars not been developed as much as electric? I had a Car magazine supplement from 1990 featuring cars of the future and BMW had a fully working hydrogen powered 7 series then. That's 30 years development time!

[NotoriousREV]

I missed that in the various press releases and drives etc...somewhat out of the BMW scene these days - we're saying now that the 530e has inductive charging? So I could drive home, park up, step from the car lock it as normal and without doing anything, it starts charging? That, in all honesty, would be bloody handy.

I think it can be specced yes. Why have hydrogen cars not been developed as much as electric? I had a Car magazine supplement from 1990 featuring cars of the future and BMW had a fully working hydrogen powered 7 series then. That's 30 years development time!

South Korea has announced that its pursuing hydrogen as it’s main fuel of the future. You can buy a FC powered Hyundai already.

[Mito Man]

I mentioned it before but that 7 series used hydrogen in its combustion engine rather than a fuel cell so wasn’t as efficient.

That said I reckon going down the hydrogen combustion engine conversion is much better than full EV if you wish to convert your classic car to it in the future and retain an ounce of character when the eventual fossil fuel tap will be shut off.

[duncs500]

Isn't the point here that HGVs are by far the biggest polluters? That's what legislation should be focused on, private cars are a less pressing concern.

[Nic]

Does anyone really think that there won’t be fuel for classics in years to come?

[Zonda_]

Does anyone really think that there won’t be fuel for classics in years to come?

Not at all, the discussion is about the governments supposed ban on ICE sales from 2035 although I'm sure they will start some scheme soon to drive ICE cars off the road.

[DeskJockey]

Isn't the point here that HGVs are by far the biggest polluters? That's what legislation should be focused on, private cars are a less pressing concern.

Canal boats and coasters! Reduce the amount of miles lorries do (also helps reduce congestion on the motorways).

[duncs500]

Isn't the point here that HGVs are by far the biggest polluters? That's what legislation should be focused on, private cars are a less pressing concern.

Canal boats and coasters! Reduce the amount of miles lorries do (also helps reduce congestion on the motorways).

Well since the Olympics they've been pushing to get construction materials off the road and on to water, but you need a specific set of circumstances to make it work. Let's start rebuilding our canal network, that would keep me in work for the rest of my career.

[DeskJockey]

Isn't the point here that HGVs are by far the biggest polluters? That's what legislation should be focused on, private cars are a less pressing concern.

Canal boats and coasters! Reduce the amount of miles lorries do (also helps reduce congestion on the motorways).

Well since the Olympics they've been pushing to get construction materials off the road and on to water, but you need a specific set of circumstances to make it work. Let's start rebuilding our canal network, that would keep me in work for the rest of my career.

Depends on what you're powered by. Are you zero emission? If not you'll surely be replaced by a more efficient millennial.

[NotoriousREV]

I mentioned it before but that 7 series used hydrogen in its combustion engine rather than a fuel cell so wasn’t as efficient.

That said I reckon going down the hydrogen combustion engine conversion is much better than full EV if you wish to convert your classic car to it in the future and retain an ounce of character when the eventual fossil fuel tap will be shut off.

Hydrogen combustion engines are hard. Hydrogen ignites too easily and over a very wide range of air:fuel ratios. Just the latent heat from the valves or piston crown can get it detonating when you don’t want it to. Kind of ironically, it works best in Wankel engines.

[duncs500]

Canal boats and coasters! Reduce the amount of miles lorries do (also helps reduce congestion on the motorways).

Well since the Olympics they've been pushing to get construction materials off the road and on to water, but you need a specific set of circumstances to make it work. Let's start rebuilding our canal network, that would keep me in work for the rest of my career.

Depends on what you're powered by. Are you zero emission? If not you'll surely be replaced by a more efficient millennial.

I think I'm ready for the scrap heap.

[V8Granite]

Does anyone really think that there won’t be fuel for classics in years to come?

The real downside I see is if you want to go for a drive and pass through any number of towns or main routes it will become incredibly expensive. I saw so many average speed areas on the way from east anglia to Scotland and can see these charging by the mile or some other expensive way of charging.

I feel like every drive in a fun car will need forward planning and that takes the fun out of things.

Dave!