FAO Rev: Mustangs

[Orange Cola]

TL;DR - I love mine but you need to forgive the fact it’s not quite up to European build quality but calling it American is equally an insult, I term them ‘mid-Atlantic’. There are things to watch out for (listed below) and all the dealers are fucking awful, in fact they’re so bad I can’t tell you enough how shit they are when working with Mustangs and that’s par for the course.

Most people buy one ‘just to run a V8 for a year’ then fall completely in love with them and keep them.

The longer version:

I tried every variant of this generation of Mustang, I set out wanting a coupe V8 manual and after trying everything I bought a convertible V8 auto. I can only recommend doing the same as you’ll both confirm the spec you want and bits you really don’t want. I bought the convertible because you can enjoy the car all of the time even when sat in traffic, a coupe doesn’t feel special until you’re on it.

All the issues below are well documented and I’m happy to help point you at more info if you need in the future.

As a side note: the US got the 3.7 V6 and although it has slightly less power than the Ecoboost it’s an absolute peach of an engine and full of character. If it was available in the UK I’d have had one in a heartbeat as it was the right balance for UK roads.

Engines:

Ecoboosts are still good but they don’t have the theatre of the V8, they are the one to go for if you’re doing lots of miles and fuel cost is a concern but they’re only really 6ish mpg better than a V8. Drive it at V8 pace on the right roads and it’s actually worse on fuel. They do suffer from a cheap to replace fuel sensor issue, factor this into your purchase.

V6 ones are available in LHD only over here, import only so no warranty. Most I’ve seen for sale have been asking for the same as RHD variants so don’t bother unless you can find someone asking a sensible price. Often come at a much lower spec than UK cars (no leather, no SYNC infotainment etc)

Coyote V8 is the most common variant in the UK. They love to rev, they drive fantastically well and Ford have used the driver modes to give you a normal every day driving experience and a proper Mustang V8 experience. It’s addictive. It will get you into trouble very quickly. This is the choice engine for UK cars if you can fit one in. Only issue is a BBQ ticking sound from some units which is not fully understood (Ford know what it is but won’t say). Engines were replaced for the tick but Ford stopped that about a year ago. Word on the street is a bottom end issue with either swarf or out of spec tolerances. Some guys in the US have put big miles on ticking engines in the trucks with no issues. It’s so, so rare that I’d just walk away if viewing a car that did it (you can hear it in the interior and exterior as you drive normally and the revs rise under light and medium loads).

DO NOT use any other oil than what Ford specify.

Gearboxes

Manual - these suffered a cost down activity and the changes go loose over time, 10-15k easily and some early ones have gone pop. The US have a well established exchanged service for improved boxes but no such thing exists in the UK. Tune at your risk, you might get a loose box and no other issues or you might get 5k down the road it shit itself. Standard cars will probably last up to 100k before being rebuilt with the stronger components. There’s an improved clutch spring from Steeda which transforms the awful scutch pedal action, it’s something like £20 and a ten minute job to fit.

Auto - the 6 speed is a ZF unit. If they’re abused they’ll shift very badly but that’s nothing a gearbox reset can’t fix so don’t let it put you off. Mine shifts as well as, sometimes better than my other car which has the ZF 8 speed in it, it’s really surprising going back to back how good it is. Strong box, virtually no failures and the US guys running big power swear by them (YouTube has some pretty impressive high power stangs with a standard auto pulling silly 1/4 mile times). Just ignore the fit for life oil and change at a sensible interval (5years/100k miles?). Oh and when driving in wet and snow mode jut be aware if you go into the far side of the accelerator travel it’ll open the toque converter, hold the engine at full power then bang it shut again which makes for an interesting experience. Manual mode is great and it blips on downshifts.

Oil coolers are something to watch out for on early cars. Quite a few have spat the oil over the road and sometimes killed an engine too. Ford have said they’ll only flush an engine so I’d walk away from one which has had one go; the owner is probably selling it due to unknown engine damage. The general consensus is they will go at some point and Ford should do a recall. Mishimoto make a replacement though and a few specialists can fit them. Later cars got a revised cooler but the occasional one still goes. I haven’t changed mine as it was built in the change over phase but it is something I’d consider doing out of warranty. Which brings me on to...

Warranties! US cars get 5 years, UK cars get 3 years + 12 years on the body subject to inspection terms. Make sure the body work warranty is up to spec because they suffer from aluminium corrosion on the front end. Ford always blame it on stone chips so avoid cars with the optional wheel spaces and lowering springs because they usually start on the leading edge of the wheel arch or leading edge of the bonnet. It’s a manufacturing issue which has affected the last two generations of Mustang. Expect a massive fight with Ford if anything does go wrong. Extended Ford manufacturer warranties were only available at the point of purchase.

Rear bearings went on earlier cars due to the big retaining nut (name escapes me) coming loose. Can be tightened yourself but later cars didn’t suffer the issue.

Bushes are often picked up at MOT time for the earlier cars so make sure you check this and get the alignment re-done anyway.

Tyres are contentious issue. Ford fitted Pirelli P Zero’s as standard and they’re ok until it goes cold and wet, then they’ll stick you in the scenery. Ford changed to Michelin Pilot Sport 4S on the facelift and most mustang owners have done the same at replacement time. They’re a much better tyre when it’s cold and wet, they’re about the same price as the P Zeros and they last roughly twice as long (rears are 7k for Pirelli, 14kish for Michelin’s, fronts 20k+). Worth knowing as a negotiation tactic too.

Bodywork is generally ok but don’t expect it to be anywhere near perfect. A lot of the early cars and cars which sat in show rooms had the panel gaps adjusted which Ford then used as a cop out for any issues further down the line. Coupes suffer from a horrendous issue with the bulk head seal, some got missed completely and over time corroded the core wiring loom and soaked the interior. It’s a massive re-work and will put the car off the road for a long time whilst they strip most of the car back to the shell just to get to the grommet. A pillars and rear windows also leaked on some coupes with an almost catastrophic effect. Walk if you suspect this has happened, it’s rare enough to be bale to easily find another car. Most cars puddle lamps deteriorate and you get a fat pony or a unicorn, it’s a £50 part from Ford plus fitting or you can do it yourself and buy a replacement part off the internet.

Aircon units can go pop too, they’ll slowly leak gas out from the exchanger which is a dash out job to get to. Seems to affect cars which have been stood for a long time in a port or the earlier cars. Ford wash their hands of this until you can prove it’s a manufacturing defect, that entails paying to refill the system and waiting for it to leak out again. Problem is Ford have moved to the new gas type so it’s not far short of £400 notes for a refill, the robbing bastards.

Modifications are something I’d avoid. Suspension mods eat bushes and bearings, engine mods are very questionable unless using well known reputable places such as Lund or Ford themselves.

SYNC 2 was standard at first, it was replaced by SYNC 3 at 17MY. They’re much of a muchness but some folk have paid a lot of money to upgrade so keep an eye for that too.

Custom Pack trim level gives you an upgraded stereo with a bass speaker in the boot, cooled seats, silver wheels and chrome trim around the windows. It was a £1,500 cost so a lot of cars have it and it’s desirable come resale time.

A few other bits a pieces to note:
15MY cars are very rare, not many were made before switching to 16MY. Both 15 & 16MY cars attract the £550/annum road tax as did some 17MY cars up to the 1st April 2017 (the dealer registered mine on the 31st March, then faffed and sold it in the July. I picked it up 6 months later as a lightly used car). Later in 2017 the taxes changed again and cars over £40k attracted the 5 year premium, which basically caught any V8 with an option on it making them £450/year to tax. This created a sweet spot of about 6 months where 17MY V8’s are £140/year to tax.

Most people will park next to you in an empty car park. Most Mustangs attract dents and damage from said idiots.

Owners groups can be cliquey, some don’t think it’s a real mustang because it’s not LHD and they deserve everything you give them back in insults.

Get a faraday pouch for the keys and move the OBD port, fit a Disclok if you can be bothered, they’re not often stolen but when they are it’s usually to order so at least make it difficult for them.

There are a few specialist and there’s one up your way in Leyland, try not to touch a dealer unless you absolutely have to. Specialists are also a bit hit and miss but they’re generally only there for modifications and servicing. Oil filters are a pig to get to even with a ramp so find someone else to do that, if they ‘can’t get the right filter’ it’s because they’ve got no idea what a Mustang is and end up with an old filter which ore-dates the slightly easier version to fit which Ford approved for use on the car.

In mine 35mpg is achievable on a run up the motorway at the speed limit, high 20’s driving around the Welsh A roads for a day at 50ish and 21ish on my 12.5 mile motorway commute to work which has a lot of stopping and starting at the end. Expect to pay £200-£240 for a standard service and £450 for a major from the main stealer and significantly less at a specialist particularly on the major because it’s just some cabin filters extra.

When insuring make sure you check the windscreen cover is very high or unlimited, they’re something like £1,500 or £2,000 for a replacement which has left some owners out of pocket because some insurance companies have limits which are significantly lower than the cost of a replacement. The official Ford ones also ‘run out of stock’ and can be a week or two on order, they’re a funky NVH reducing one hence the extra cost.

They’re good cars and most of the above is easily avoided if you know what to look out for. If you end up buying a convertible then let me know, that’s a load of info I’ve left out.

[Mito Man]

Fucking hell. You’d be better off with stick of lit dynamite

[RobYob]

The official Ford ones also ‘run out of stock’ and can be a week or two on order, they’re a funky NVH reducing one hence the extra cost.

"Acoustic glass" they have an extra laminate layer, they're very effective for high frequency noise and cost about £10 more* than regular windscreen glass.

*Minimum order of 50k units/year.

[mik]

Rev will only be considering the 5.0 V8.

Or he can hand in his membership.

[Orange Cola]

Fucking hell. You’d be better off with stick of lit dynamite

I think you’re forgetting it’s a summary of what, 15,000 cars in the UK with issues that picky enthusiasts are willing to complain about on an owners club, you’ll never hear about things which have gone right. You’d find a similar or longer list for any other car out there. If Rev can find a good car and dodge one or two in the many he’ll probably look at, which shouldn’t be hard, then it’s been worth it. There’s nothing like buying a new car with an issue that’s easily avoided or an issue that’s picked up on to negotiate with and saves you money on the outlay.

For the Mustangs I’ve never heard of cars reaching more than the tens of reports for most of those issues, the tyres and dealers/Ford UK are the only one everyone has an issue with but that’s why Ford fitted a burn out mode

[dinny_g]

Jesus Rev, if you don’t buy a Mustang now, you’re a cunt...

[Coaster1]

Good write up OC. Interesting read.

[NotoriousREV]

Cheers for the write up, good stuff to look out for. What’s the ride and handling like compared to Euro stuff?

[Orange Cola]

In my opinion it’s a good balance between ride comfort and handling. It’s no hot hatch but definitely in the sports car /GT set ups and I’ve easily done some lengthy stints up the motorway in it.

The steering wasn’t quite on the mark for me and the ride was a bit nervous on a fair few surfaces but I found fitting the Michelin’s noticeably improved the ride and steering feel (the Mustang runs 40 profile tyres which helps a lot when you fit the right tyre).

The UK cars get the ‘performance pack’ as standard and on the V8’s that’s a sportier chassis with stiffer springs and ARB’s plus the Brembo 6 pots. The only item we didn’t get was the strut tower brace but a RHD version is now available through Ford dealers. I found the non performance pack cars a little softly sprung for my liking but good body roll control, the PP cars fixed that. I’ve not tracked mine but other owners report no issues with the standard brakes on track, they only switch the pads if they’re doing a lot of track says through the year.

The only issue I’ve had with mine is a bit of shell flex (it’s a convertible) and when pushing on down a tight fun B road it starts to feel a bit on the soft side and requires a bit of thinking ahead so you don’t let the chassis get too caught out. Amazingly though the standard ride height seems to get me over all the speed bumps and multi-storey car parks I’ve used and it’s yet to run out of travel in any situation. The guys who lower them do start to suffer from ride height and travel issue though but their cars feel more composed on a country lane.

[NotoriousREV]

Sweet. I’m going to try a manual and an auto if I can. If the auto is closer to ZF8 type performance than the old Jatco ‘box in my Stagea I might give it a go but currently I think I’d prefer the manual.

Shame we never got the GT350.

I plan on ignoring your advice on tuning and going for the Edelbrock e-force stage 1 blower kit.

[Orange Cola]

I almost forgot, they will over steer hero as much as you want them to. Just be aware that in fully on the stability control allows a lot of slip before waking up and it’s got a few people into trouble when the cold wet weather comes.

[Orange Cola]

Sweet. I’m going to try a manual and an auto if I can. If the auto is closer to ZF8 type performance than the old Jatco ‘box in my Stagea I might give it a go but currently I think I’d prefer the manual.

Shame we never got the GT350.

I plan on ignoring your advice on tuning and going for the Edelbrock e-force stage 1 blower kit.

The GT350 would be perfect, if you’re ever over in the states there are ‘race schools’ which run them and look like a good way to spend a day or two.

Most people recommend an auto if supercharging but there are options if you blow up a manual. Other changes people recommend when charging are fitting 20” wheels with a wider profile, coil overs and rear subframe lock outs so you can get the power down. The nice thing is there are so many people who have charged them that there’s plenty of information out there to help you decide on exactly what you want from the car.

[Swervin_Mervin]

Interesting to know they used the ZF6. Always preferred the shift of mine in the 330 over the ZF8 in the 125i we had - much smoother (most of the time). However, it's also fairly lethargic in mine. Certainly more of a slushbox than the ZF8.

[NotoriousREV]

I almost forgot, they will over steer hero as much as you want them to. Just be aware that in fully on the stability control allows a lot of slip before waking up and it’s got a few people into trouble when the cold wet weather comes.

Don’t forget I used to have a Monaro. That thing would get to 45° before even flickering the light

[Orange Cola]

You’ll be fine then!

[Orange Cola]

Interesting to know they used the ZF6. Always preferred the shift of mine in the 330 over the ZF8 in the 125i we had - much smoother (most of the time). However, it's also fairly lethargic in mine. Certainly more of a slushbox than the ZF8.

I think it’s a newer version again in the Mustang, the standard mode is very open, slow and therefore quite smooth. Sport is a fully locked torque converter and it’ll hold the gears, Rev match on down shifts and is only smooth when pushing on.

[scotta]

I almost forgot, they will over steer hero as much as you want them to. Just be aware that in fully on the stability control allows a lot of slip before waking up and it’s got a few people into trouble when the cold wet weather comes.

Ive managed to put the 240 full lock stops sideways with the traction control still on. If you kick it down it will wheel spin at 70mph in the wet.

[Swervin_Mervin]

I almost forgot, they will over steer hero as much as you want them to. Just be aware that in fully on the stability control allows a lot of slip before waking up and it’s got a few people into trouble when the cold wet weather comes.

Ive managed to put the 240 full lock stops sideways with the traction control still on. If you kick it down it will wheel spin at 70mph in the wet.

The TC on the F20 125i we had was considerably more relaxed than that on my E91, which is almost crippling at this time of year. Had a few comedy moments as a result of swapping directly from one to the other.

[Nathan]

I assume everyone followed the thread on PH Readers Rides of the grey one owned by a British guy in NL ?

I really wanted one then

[Orange Cola]

I almost forgot, they will over steer hero as much as you want them to. Just be aware that in fully on the stability control allows a lot of slip before waking up and it’s got a few people into trouble when the cold wet weather comes.

Ive managed to put the 240 full lock stops sideways with the traction control still on. If you kick it down it will wheel spin at 70mph in the wet.

If Rev gets a S/C one he'll be going sideways at 80 if he's not careful Maybe we'll need a new 'sideways at Xmph' thread