Smart Thermostats

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Delphi
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Re: Smart Thermostats

Post by Delphi »

Swervin_Mervin wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:54 am
Delphi wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:58 am I got a Honeywell Lyric thermostat which came free with my Wiessmann boiler. Don't use the app too much, but when I do it's pretty easy and straightforward.
Just out of interest Andy, what Wiessmann boiler have you got? Looking at them for our imminent refurb
I've got the Vitodens 050. Had one in my previous house. They're excellent. Mine came with a ten year warranty and 5 years free servicing.
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Re: Smart Thermostats

Post by Jobbo »

simon_g wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:59 am Evohome is super easy to control without an app and do things like setting schedules. Can't remember the last time I bothered using the app.

You don't have to have it set up with a special valve thing on every radiator - ours runs the 3 heating zones we already had, just installed a little thermostat in each zone so it know the temperature, and the base unit senses temperature for downstairs.
How does it control each zone if you don’t have an HR92 on each radiator?

Agree about the hub thing being easy but my wife has never used it at all - it looks complex compared to a traditional thermostat. But then it includes the whole timer bit as well which tends to be set and forget on a traditional system.
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Foz
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Re: Smart Thermostats

Post by Foz »

Carlos wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:14 pm And does Foz's mam have wifi ?
Yeah :)
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Re: Smart Thermostats

Post by Foz »

McSwede wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:34 am
Foz wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:32 pm She has a modern Worcester Bosch gas boiler & hot water tank, and an older style CH/HW controller that was replaced, and no longer works so it’s manually off/on at the boiler now :roll:

Few people looked at it with no luck, my idea is to do get rid of controller and get a newer system with phone app etc, the title is misleading :?
Drayton Wiser do Kit 2 for conventional systems with boiler/tank. I'm a spastic with electrics and managed to wire it to our old boiler.
Liked the look of this but turns out she has a gravity fed system, which doesn’t work for wiser :(
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Simon
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Re: Smart Thermostats

Post by Simon »

It most certainly does work with gravity fed. See my video up top.

Edit - clarify what you mean by 'gravity fed'. Does she have a cylinder with a stat on it?
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Re: Smart Thermostats

Post by Jobbo »

I may not have had the best experience with Wiser’s wifi, but it functioned as intended with our gravity-fed system.
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Re: Smart Thermostats

Post by Foz »

Cold water tank in the loft, a hangover of shit mains pressure from when the house was built in the 80’s.

Mains pressure is now beet good, and a tank is old hat, will look at potentially bypassing it at the weekend..
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Re: Smart Thermostats

Post by Simon »

So go here and work out exactly which you have according to them...
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Simon
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Re: Smart Thermostats

Post by Simon »

Foz wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:52 pm Cold water tank in the loft, a hangover of shit mains pressure from when the house was built in the 80’s.

Mains pressure is now beet good, and a tank is old hat, will look at potentially bypassing it at the weekend..
So does it have a pump or not?
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simon_g
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Re: Smart Thermostats

Post by simon_g »

Jobbo wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:31 pm
simon_g wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:59 am Evohome is super easy to control without an app and do things like setting schedules. Can't remember the last time I bothered using the app.

You don't have to have it set up with a special valve thing on every radiator - ours runs the 3 heating zones we already had, just installed a little thermostat in each zone so it know the temperature, and the base unit senses temperature for downstairs.
How does it control each zone if you don’t have an HR92 on each radiator?

Agree about the hub thing being easy but my wife has never used it at all - it looks complex compared to a traditional thermostat. But then it includes the whole timer bit as well which tends to be set and forget on a traditional system.
House has zone valves each on their own BDR91 - previous owners had separate Honeywell non-smart thermostat/timers controlling each, and that was OK until the displays started dying in them.

Bought the Evohome base unit, that controls the downstairs zone because it has its own thermometer. Then two T87RF wireless thermostats which you set up as sensors in Evohome - I think you can also use them in a radiator valve setup to get another view of room temperature. That lets Evohome know when the middle and top floor zones should be fired up. Turning the outside of the T87RF lets you set a target temp too for the zone until next scheduled change. The other two BDR91s are paired up to the Evohome too for control.

I ended up setting each zone as electric heating - so it just knows it's too cold, switch the heating on for that zone. The way the BDR91s are wired each can fire the boiler if they need heat, there isn't a master one that does it.

The two thermostats were about £70 each, vs £50ish for each for a dozen radiators.
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Swervin_Mervin
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Re: Smart Thermostats

Post by Swervin_Mervin »

Delphi wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:24 pm
Swervin_Mervin wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:54 am
Delphi wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:58 am I got a Honeywell Lyric thermostat which came free with my Wiessmann boiler. Don't use the app too much, but when I do it's pretty easy and straightforward.
Just out of interest Andy, what Wiessmann boiler have you got? Looking at them for our imminent refurb
I've got the Vitodens 050. Had one in my previous house. They're excellent. Mine came with a ten year warranty and 5 years free servicing.
That's good to know. Looking at the 111W as it has a 46l hot water cyl as well. I know they come with Tado but will probably look at evohome
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Re: Smart Thermostats

Post by jamcg »

Foz wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:36 pm
McSwede wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:34 am
Foz wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:32 pm She has a modern Worcester Bosch gas boiler & hot water tank, and an older style CH/HW controller that was replaced, and no longer works so it’s manually off/on at the boiler now :roll:

Few people looked at it with no luck, my idea is to do get rid of controller and get a newer system with phone app etc, the title is misleading :?
Drayton Wiser do Kit 2 for conventional systems with boiler/tank. I'm a spastic with electrics and managed to wire it to our old boiler.
Liked the look of this but turns out she has a gravity fed system, which doesn’t work for wiser :(
If she has a modern boiler she won’t have a gravity system. This is different to having storage tanks- yes those are gravity fed, but for the purpose of heating controls gravity refers to how the water is circulated around the house

A gravity system is where the heating is pumped, but the hot water cylinder is not. It is heated via gravity- basically hot water rises, cold water falls, that’s what heats the cylinder

What your Mam should have is a “fully pumped” system- a pump which is usually, but not always, sited in the airing cupboard, along side either a 3 way diverted valve, or 2x 2 way zone valves, also know as a y plan or an s plan


As for viessman boilers, I’ve got one. Hate the fucking thing. Came with the house so I’m stuck with it for now. They’re a step up from ideal and glow worm but in my experience a step down from Worcester, valiant and baxi
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Foz
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Re: Smart Thermostats

Post by Foz »

Yeah, there’s a pump for the CH.

Also a pump had to go in for the shower due to poor
Water pressure.

I need to check the cylinder, I presume the existing one is vented, I installed a complex system with pressure vessels and 300l mega flow cylinder etc in my old house.

I probably need to get plumber on the case, but the pressing issue is no timer at all for the heating just now, bypassing/ removing the loft tank and cylinder changes can wait.

Thanks for the help folks :)
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Re: Smart Thermostats

Post by Jobbo »

simon_g wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:33 pm
Jobbo wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:31 pm
simon_g wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:59 am Evohome is super easy to control without an app and do things like setting schedules. Can't remember the last time I bothered using the app.

You don't have to have it set up with a special valve thing on every radiator - ours runs the 3 heating zones we already had, just installed a little thermostat in each zone so it know the temperature, and the base unit senses temperature for downstairs.
How does it control each zone if you don’t have an HR92 on each radiator?

Agree about the hub thing being easy but my wife has never used it at all - it looks complex compared to a traditional thermostat. But then it includes the whole timer bit as well which tends to be set and forget on a traditional system.
House has zone valves each on their own BDR91 - previous owners had separate Honeywell non-smart thermostat/timers controlling each, and that was OK until the displays started dying in them.

Bought the Evohome base unit, that controls the downstairs zone because it has its own thermometer. Then two T87RF wireless thermostats which you set up as sensors in Evohome - I think you can also use them in a radiator valve setup to get another view of room temperature. That lets Evohome know when the middle and top floor zones should be fired up. Turning the outside of the T87RF lets you set a target temp too for the zone until next scheduled change. The other two BDR91s are paired up to the Evohome too for control.

I ended up setting each zone as electric heating - so it just knows it's too cold, switch the heating on for that zone. The way the BDR91s are wired each can fire the boiler if they need heat, there isn't a master one that does it.

The two thermostats were about £70 each, vs £50ish for each for a dozen radiators.
Ah, if you have separate zone valves already then I can see how it would be relatively easy to fit. Probably rare to find your house is already zoned that way, and a nightmare to switch to different zones retrospectively.

It does irk me that I don't use the base unit's thermometer at all; I'd also like to have a wall thermostat for the living room for my wife to turn up (set to max out at 18C, obvs ;) ) but I can't justify it.
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Swervin_Mervin
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Re: Smart Thermostats

Post by Swervin_Mervin »

Could do with tapping into the Hive mind (geddit?) about smart heating and zoning in particular. I've already settled on the Evohome setup - I've kept an eye on the various systems over the last few years as I knew we'd be working towards this point. With that in mind I also already have a Y87R wireless room thermostat (& BDR91 relay box) which currently controls everything.

I'd like to spec something up that achieves a decent baseline of control, and will add to it over time if necessary. It would be good to hear from those with such setups if there are any tips, or things they would/wouldn't have done in retrospect.

We've got the following layout:

Downstairs:
3.5 rooms at the rear of the house (Kitchen, Living and Dining + a utility room) - to be wet UFH zoned as 3 zones
Lounge - 1 rad
Hallway - 1 rad

Upstairs:
3 bedrooms - 1 rad in each
1 study - 1 rad
1 main bathroom - 1 rad
1 en-suite - 1 rad

At the moment, and particulary at this time of year, there are some significant temp differences front to rear downstairs (front is south facing), and upstairs/downstairs generally, which it would be nice to even out. I'd guess the wet UFH might go some way to addressing the downstairs differential. So I'm thinking 6/7 zones as:

3 zones for the UFH - 1 for each UFH room "loop"
1 zone for lounge
1 zone for hallway
1 zone for upstairs bedrooms and bathrooms
1 zone for upstairs study room

Does this seem reasonble?
Last edited by Swervin_Mervin on Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Smart Thermostats

Post by Jobbo »

I ought to be able to help, Mike, but I doubt I can - we've had Evohome for over 3 years and I'm very happy with it, but we don't have UFH and I've never changed the zoning since originally installing it, so each radiator is its own zone.

Must get round to it, to be honest; we have two rads in the main bedroom, two rads in the living room and it would be simpler to have the spare bedrooms as a single zone rather than all separate.

Evohome will naturally resolve the temp difference between rooms though, if you set each room to the same temp; each rad will only call for heat to get to that temp.

I would add that for at least the first year it felt like I was fiddling with the temp settings; I think it takes a while to really learn the heat loss characteristics for each room.
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Re: Smart Thermostats

Post by mik »

Jobbo wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:24 am
Evohome will naturally resolve the temp difference between rooms though, if you set each room to the same temp; each rad will only call for heat to get to that temp.
I don’t have any knowledge of smart heating stuff but even normal radiator stats will do this - is your issue with temp difference, or some rads taking longer to fill than others?
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Re: Smart Thermostats

Post by Jobbo »

Normal passive TRVs can't equalise the temperature in the rooms, as far as I'm aware - just the temp in the rad?

Obviously they also can't call for heat if the room is cold but the main thermostat isn't.
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mik
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Re: Smart Thermostats

Post by mik »

Yes - TRVs open or close the flow through the rad based on the room temperature.

But yes - they can’t do anything if the main stat has switched everything off.
Last edited by mik on Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Smart Thermostats

Post by Jobbo »

Of course they do - I'm being mad. But being passive, you need to have the boiler running and heating circuit open for them to work. Any active TRV should learn the room characteristics and simply by virtue of being active, automatically deal with differences between rooms.
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