The DSLR thread

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Gavin
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Re: The DSLR thread

Post by Gavin »

JonMad wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:15 pm
Gavin wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:34 am I am mucking about with manual settings but my knowledge level is about 2 out of 10 I think. I did not understand 90% of the posts on this thread anyway.

I have been using a basic Canon 75 - 300 lens that doesn't have image stabilisation and I am finding that for wildlife shots, whish is what I have been taking, are not as crisp or clear as I would like or expect.
What can I do to crisp up the images that are usually taken at full zoom? I switched to RAW and that has helped slightly but am I better not zooming as much then using a crop instead?
Hello.

A couple of questions to start.
What shutter speed are you using? Faster = less risk of subject blur (for a fast moving wildlife subject) and less risk of overall blur (from you moving the camera whilst taking the shot).
Do you have a tripod, or something else to keep the camera steady?
I have, since posting this, been doing some reading and experimentation and discovered which wheel controls shutter speed so that is something I will look at but I think it was set not that fast. My brother suggested using "landscape" and "sport" type settings which he says he uses mostly. He actually learned with a separate light meter etc so knows his stuff so perhaps that is the answer.

I do wonder if the fact the camera "only" has 10M megapixels or so is half the problem. Seems newer cameras have double that and more which I assume means when you zoom in or crop, the picture has twice the clarity?

I do have a tripod but only a teeny one. So far most of my pics have been while out walking though. I will try the wee tripod next time I visit a hyde though and a pal has offered to lend me his long lens, just a cheapie apparently but to see how I go with it. Think it goes to 600mm!
tim
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Re: The DSLR thread

Post by tim »

Is anyone interested in a mint Canon L Series 70-200mm f4 lens? Un marked like new, with box, lens shade and carrying bag. £280 delivered.
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dinny_g
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Re: The DSLR thread

Post by dinny_g »

@Gavin - I'm no expert but I guess your issue is down to the lens and required shutter speed.

I'm guessing that at full zoom, your lens is running F5.6 which is a relatively small aperture. At 300mm your processor is going to opt for a fast shutter speed to counteract a blurred image, particularly without IS.

Combine fast shutter with narrow aperture and possibly lower light levels mean your image is always going to appear a little more Grainy than you would hope for. There's an impact of the film speed setting here too but I'm not sure of what this is - someone with more knowledge of this can explain.

This is why, when I had to choose, I bought a "ridiculously unnecessary for me" L Series Canon 70-200 F2.8II IS. I had vouchers and nothing else to spend them on. What you lose in zoom length, you gain in image quality. At full zoom, your images are always crisp clear, even in low light and without a tripod. Additional Zoom reach can be achieved by cropping afterwards.

As for Landscape V Sport - they're likely to give you different outcomes:

Landscape will likely have a Small aperture as this is necessary to capture detail at various distances (The famous Landscape club of the 20's and 30's formed by Ansel Adams was called the F64 club). This will be twinned with a slower shutter speed to get enough light to get the exposure

Sport will likely have as fast a shutter speed as possible to capture as sharp an image as possible. This will be combined with as large an aperture as possible
JLv3.0 wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:26 pm I say this rarely Dave, but listen to Dinny because he's right.
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JonMad
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Re: The DSLR thread

Post by JonMad »

Gavin wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:07 pm
JonMad wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:15 pm
Gavin wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:34 am I am mucking about with manual settings but my knowledge level is about 2 out of 10 I think. I did not understand 90% of the posts on this thread anyway.

I have been using a basic Canon 75 - 300 lens that doesn't have image stabilisation and I am finding that for wildlife shots, whish is what I have been taking, are not as crisp or clear as I would like or expect.
What can I do to crisp up the images that are usually taken at full zoom? I switched to RAW and that has helped slightly but am I better not zooming as much then using a crop instead?
Hello.

A couple of questions to start.
What shutter speed are you using? Faster = less risk of subject blur (for a fast moving wildlife subject) and less risk of overall blur (from you moving the camera whilst taking the shot).
Do you have a tripod, or something else to keep the camera steady?
I have, since posting this, been doing some reading and experimentation and discovered which wheel controls shutter speed so that is something I will look at but I think it was set not that fast. My brother suggested using "landscape" and "sport" type settings which he says he uses mostly. He actually learned with a separate light meter etc so knows his stuff so perhaps that is the answer.

I do wonder if the fact the camera "only" has 10M megapixels or so is half the problem. Seems newer cameras have double that and more which I assume means when you zoom in or crop, the picture has twice the clarity?

I do have a tripod but only a teeny one. So far most of my pics have been while out walking though. I will try the wee tripod next time I visit a hyde though and a pal has offered to lend me his long lens, just a cheapie apparently but to see how I go with it. Think it goes to 600mm!
Try using Tv (shutter speed priority) setting and set it to something fairly fast (your camera may adjust the ISO up from say 100 to 800 to let you get a bright enough picture at full zoom - that will affect the quality by making the photo more grainy, as Dinny says, but blur and grain/quality are separate things). Have a look at 'exposure triangle' for some light reading :). e.g. https://www.photoblog.com/learn/exposur ... gle-guide/
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dinny_g
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Re: The DSLR thread

Post by dinny_g »

I’ve been assuming noise, rather than camera shake blurring but it might be just that.
JLv3.0 wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:26 pm I say this rarely Dave, but listen to Dinny because he's right.
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GG.
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Re: The DSLR thread

Post by GG. »

Gavin wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:07 pm
JonMad wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:15 pm
Gavin wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:34 am I am mucking about with manual settings but my knowledge level is about 2 out of 10 I think. I did not understand 90% of the posts on this thread anyway.

I have been using a basic Canon 75 - 300 lens that doesn't have image stabilisation and I am finding that for wildlife shots, whish is what I have been taking, are not as crisp or clear as I would like or expect.
What can I do to crisp up the images that are usually taken at full zoom? I switched to RAW and that has helped slightly but am I better not zooming as much then using a crop instead?
Hello.

A couple of questions to start.
What shutter speed are you using? Faster = less risk of subject blur (for a fast moving wildlife subject) and less risk of overall blur (from you moving the camera whilst taking the shot).
Do you have a tripod, or something else to keep the camera steady?
I have, since posting this, been doing some reading and experimentation and discovered which wheel controls shutter speed so that is something I will look at but I think it was set not that fast. My brother suggested using "landscape" and "sport" type settings which he says he uses mostly. He actually learned with a separate light meter etc so knows his stuff so perhaps that is the answer.

I do wonder if the fact the camera "only" has 10M megapixels or so is half the problem. Seems newer cameras have double that and more which I assume means when you zoom in or crop, the picture has twice the clarity?

I do have a tripod but only a teeny one. So far most of my pics have been while out walking though. I will try the wee tripod next time I visit a hyde though and a pal has offered to lend me his long lens, just a cheapie apparently but to see how I go with it. Think it goes to 600mm!
Rule of thumb for shutter speed handheld is add a nought to the focal length, i.e. at the wide end of that lens you need 1/750 of a second and at the long end 1/3000, i.e likely 3/4 of the maximum shutter speed your camera can do assuming it has the common maximum of 1/4000 of a second.

When you do the maths you realise why zooms handheld on a crop sensor are pretty limited in their use without lens or in body stabilisation unless you're in perfect light and have good posture with the camera.

Megapixel of the sensor will not be an issue (other than the fact that you don't have the resolution to shoot wider and crop to get around the issue) but if it is an older body then lack of high ISO capability may well be as they were pretty limited back in the day.
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KiwiDave
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Re: The DSLR thread

Post by KiwiDave »

I've actually never heard that rule of thumb GG - it would certainly work though. We were always taught whatever the focal length is (300mm) that's the slowest shutter speed you could ever get away with good technique. Add in the fact it's a crop sensor and it makes it 480. so 1/500th sec. Migt be a bit easier to achieve.

I'd echo what others have said though (skim reading) - stick it on TV and dial in 1/500th or faster, especially if it has an Auto ISO setting. That'll get you close. Or the sports mode would probably work too, it's just forcing the camera to select wide apertures and fast shutter speeds.
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Gavin
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Re: The DSLR thread

Post by Gavin »

Thanks everyone, I have tried a few different shutter settings to varying degrees of success. Definitely an improvement but sports setting sounds worth a try.

@KiwiDave what is TV? Not the obvious :?

@dinny_g What is IS please?
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Re: The DSLR thread

Post by GG. »

Gavin wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:52 am Thanks everyone, I have tried a few different shutter settings to varying degrees of success. Definitely an improvement but sports setting sounds worth a try.

@KiwiDave what is TV? Not the obvious :?

@dinny_g What is IS please?
Tv is ‘time value’ - ie the setting on the mode dial (often marked Tv) that allows you to manually adjust the shutter speed with the camera then measuring the available light and setting the aperture automatically for you (and potentially ISO too).

The flip side to this is Av or ‘aperture value’ which allows manual adjustment of the aperture (to allow you to select your chosen depth of field) and then has the camera automatically select the shutter speed.

A on the dial (or for canon a green square (IIRC) is automatic with the camera setting both values (basically point and shoot) and M is if you’re a pro and want to set both shutter and aperture manually.

IS is shorthand for image stabilisation.
Last edited by GG. on Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:54 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The DSLR thread

Post by dinny_g »

IS is the Image Stabilisation in Canon world. I think it's VR in on Nikon's

TV is the Shutter Speed Priority Setting - on TV, the Jog Wheel will adjust the Shutter Speed only and the sensor will take care of the rest.

Edit - GG beat me to it - :)
JLv3.0 wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:26 pm I say this rarely Dave, but listen to Dinny because he's right.
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Gavin
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Re: The DSLR thread

Post by Gavin »

Cheers guys. I went to New Asgard yesterday and took some shots following the various advice, will check after work and see how they turned out.
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Re: The DSLR thread

Post by dinny_g »

How did you get on Gav??
JLv3.0 wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:26 pm I say this rarely Dave, but listen to Dinny because he's right.
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Gavin
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Re: The DSLR thread

Post by Gavin »

dinny_g wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:04 pm How did you get on Gav??
I think I got on OK, but the auto settings weren't that great. Landscape worked OK but the sports setting for birds was hit an miss. There are a few different wee auto focus boxes and the camera never picks the same one as I want it to! :shock:

I do feel like I am getting a wee bit better with the manual settings though so my current plan is to carry on with what I have and get to the point that either the camera is holding back or it goes back in the bag, post lock down, and I go back to using it once a year or so, in which case no real point spending money.

Mirrorless is now opening up a whole new world of thought as well, chap I know has the Sony basic model with two £700ish lenses and the pictures he gets are fantastic so not sure whether that would suit.

Perhaps loads of people will switch from DSLR to mirrorless and I can upgrade to a new s/h DSLR at a reasonable price.

If I knew how to load pics on here (or could be arsed) I would stick up a few to be critiqued.
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Re: The DSLR thread

Post by GG. »

Gavin wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:36 pm
dinny_g wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:04 pm How did you get on Gav??
I think I got on OK, but the auto settings weren't that great. Landscape worked OK but the sports setting for birds was hit an miss. There are a few different wee auto focus boxes and the camera never picks the same one as I want it to! :shock:
Key to this one is to set your camera to use a single autofocus point only (e.g. the one in the middle). Then point that at what you want to be in focus with a half depress of the shutter, recompose the shot (if you don't want that object right in the middle) keeping your finger on the shutter button the whole time so it doesn't refocus, then full depress to take the shot.

This is the method I've always used. Letting the camera select may be helpful if you have a fast moving target, however, in my experience anything but the latest high end sports DSLR would always re-focus too slowly for that to be useful anyway!
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Gavin
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Re: The DSLR thread

Post by Gavin »

GG. wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:03 pm
Gavin wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:36 pm
dinny_g wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:04 pm How did you get on Gav??
I think I got on OK, but the auto settings weren't that great. Landscape worked OK but the sports setting for birds was hit an miss. There are a few different wee auto focus boxes and the camera never picks the same one as I want it to! :shock:
Key to this one is to set your camera to use a single autofocus point only (e.g. the one in the middle). Then point that at what you want to be in focus with a half depress of the shutter, recompose the shot (if you don't want that object right in the middle) keeping your finger on the shutter button the whole time so it doesn't refocus, then full depress to take the shot.

This is the method I've always used. Letting the camera select may be helpful if you have a fast moving target, however, in my experience anything but the latest high end sports DSLR would always re-focus too slowly for that to be useful anyway!
Cheers, yes, I have it set to that now. I think someone talked about it early on in this thread which is how I knew it was even a thing!

I think I have learned more about photography and cameras in the last three weeks than I had in the previous 40 something years of my life! It is a bloody spiral of evonomics though. I am finding myself working out hw much my current kit would sell for against a new camera..... :shock:
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Re: The DSLR thread

Post by GG. »

Its a bit unfortunate that you're into wildlife photography to be honest. For anything else you can usually get a nice set up relatively cheaply (any old DSLR and a good quality medium 30-40mm prime) but with long zoom lenses there aren't really any cheap good options and a newer body with high ISO capability is then much more important.
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Gavin
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Re: The DSLR thread

Post by Gavin »

GG. wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:28 pm Its a bit unfortunately that you're into wildlife photography to be honest. For anything else you can usually get a nice set up relatively cheaply (any old DSLR and a good quality medium 30-40mm prime) but with long zoom lenses there aren't really any cheap good options and a newer body with high ISO capability is then much more important.
Ah, That is a bit of a bugger! :(

TBF, the lens and camera combo I have are OK, so the newer version of what I have with double the pixel count should make a huge difference when cropping later?
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Re: The DSLR thread

Post by KiwiDave »

GG. wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:03 pm Key to this one is to set your camera to use a single autofocus point only (e.g. the one in the middle). Then point that at what you want to be in focus with a half depress of the shutter, recompose the shot (if you don't want that object right in the middle) keeping your finger on the shutter button the whole time so it doesn't refocus, then full depress to take the shot.

This is the method I've always used. Letting the camera select may be helpful if you have a fast moving target, however, in my experience anything but the latest high end sports DSLR would always re-focus too slowly for that to be useful anyway!
This.

Learning the focus/recompose technique solves almost all problems.
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Re: The DSLR thread

Post by tim »

So having not used my 450D for probably 2 years I dug it out at the weekend and my 10 year old daughter wanted to have a go. So I put the big L series on it and she took this:

Image

Not bad!
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Gavin
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Re: The DSLR thread

Post by Gavin »

That is well composed. I find tits are bloody fast movers and it is hard to get a decent shot of them so that is a cracking shot!
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