Bye Bye Boris!

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NotoriousREV
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

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Broccers wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:54 am Or put so many conditions/objections in the bill it has no chance of getting approved in law by the house of lords in time? Just one of many other ideas ;)
I believe it’s unamendable, or at least I think that’s what JRM was bitterly complaining about last night, which Bercow tore him a new arsehole over.
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

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GG. wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:02 am
NotoriousREV wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:24 am a Lib/Lab coalition
Presumably that would only be possible if Corbyn is deposed as leader? Given they can't force him out without a vote of the members, that doesn't seem that likely.

Otherwise, Swinson would have to do a U turn on collaborating with the hard left Corbynites - if you thought the Con/Lab coalition damaged the reputation of the Lib Dems, it wouldn't hold a candle to that partnership...
There’ll be no overall majority so we’ll have to have a coalition. I see Lib/Lab as more likely than Lib/Con this time around.
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

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NotoriousREV wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:05 am
Broccers wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:54 am Or put so many conditions/objections in the bill it has no chance of getting approved in law by the house of lords in time? Just one of many other ideas ;)
I believe it’s unamendable, or at least I think that’s what JRM was bitterly complaining about last night, which Bercow tore him a new arsehole over.
I dont think Bercow has any power in the house of lords. A normal timescale of a bill becoming law is not a week more like a year :lol:
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

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Hard left Corbynites? You do realise that using Europe as a yardstick he is not actually all the far left? His policies are more or less in line with quite a lot of European Governments and despite the assurances from our right wing media, the countries manage quite nicely with fair taxation and decent safety nets for the vulnerable in society.

They are not suggesting 75 which in many parts of the country and particularly in many demographic groups is essentially "work til you drop".

I doubt any of us want to work that long and I again I appreciate that you would not be someone dependent on the state pension and given your political stance we can probably assume you don't really GAF about many others?
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

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GG. wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:59 am So I see we solved the undesirable situation of the PM having the power to call an election for political gain by replacing it with a situation where he's beholden to a majority in parliament that think they'd lose an election and therefore don't want one called for err... political gain. Well done draftsmen of the Fixed Term Parliament Act :roll:
I think it works well. Being beholden to the whims of one person versus the whims of over 400 acting together... hardly comparable.

As for a Corbyn-led Labour government being in any way acceptable, consider their latest policy ruse: to allow tenants to buy their residential properties at a discount. At a stroke disincentivising residential landlords completely and thus removing rental properties from the market - achieving totally the opposite of their intentions. It's so ill-thought out that it's almost funny, but if it became law it wouldn't be so humorous.
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by GG. »

NotoriousREV wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:07 am
GG. wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:02 am
NotoriousREV wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:24 am a Lib/Lab coalition
Presumably that would only be possible if Corbyn is deposed as leader? Given they can't force him out without a vote of the members, that doesn't seem that likely.

Otherwise, Swinson would have to do a U turn on collaborating with the hard left Corbynites - if you thought the Con/Lab coalition damaged the reputation of the Lib Dems, it wouldn't hold a candle to that partnership...
There’ll be no overall majority so we’ll have to have a coalition. I see Lib/Lab as more likely than Lib/Con this time around.
You don't have to have a formal coalition and can govern as a minority. Realistically, given the fractious nature of parliament it would be very difficult to make that work, though not necessarily any more achievable to hang together a hard left Brexit-ambiguous Labour leadership with a soggy centre left liberal hard-Remain Lib Dem one.

Its still very very difficult at this stage to guage what level of support the conservatives would have and how the Brexit party would impact things, however.
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

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GG. wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:28 am You don't have to have a formal coalition and can govern as a minority. Realistically, given the fractious nature of parliament it would be very difficult to make that work, though not necessarily any more achievable to hang together a hard left Brexit-ambiguous Labour leadership with a soggy centre left liberal hard-Remain Lib Dem one.

Its still very very difficult at this stage to guage what level of support the conservatives would have and how the Brexit party would impact things, however.
I agree with all of that. Which is why it's so hard to predict what might happen - and why the MPs are equally likely not to want to call a general election.
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

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Broccers wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:08 am
NotoriousREV wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:05 am
Broccers wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:54 am Or put so many conditions/objections in the bill it has no chance of getting approved in law by the house of lords in time? Just one of many other ideas ;)
I believe it’s unamendable, or at least I think that’s what JRM was bitterly complaining about last night, which Bercow tore him a new arsehole over.
I dont think Bercow has any power in the house of lords. A normal timescale of a bill becoming law is not a week more like a year :lol:
What’s interesting is I can’t find any commentators talking about the HoL stopping the bill. You’d think, if it were a major sticking point or another major step in the battle, we’d see a lot of analysis on the subject. Which leads me to conclude that either

A) they’re all ignoring the possibility (why would the Pro-Brexit press not be pushing this angle if it were a possibility?)

B) It’s pretty much already a done deal (ie no one expects the Lords to do anything other than pass it)

C) There’s nothing the HoL can do

No idea which of those is right, but it’s odd it’s not being discussed.
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

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NotoriousREV wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:36 am
No idea which of those is right, but it’s odd it’s not being discussed.
Because noone cares about these things as it doesnt sell advertising :lol:
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

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So people are interested enough in Brexit for extensive coverage as these things pass through Parliament but not when it goes to the HoL? Seems oddly specific, but OK 🤷‍♂️
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

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NotoriousREV wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:55 am So people are interested enough in Brexit for extensive coverage as these things pass through Parliament but not when it goes to the HoL? Seems oddly specific, but OK 🤷‍♂️
It's what they are presented with in the media and repeated ad nauseam.

This can be fast tracked by Hol for sure.

What next for the Bill?
The Bill will need to complete all its stages in the House of Commons. If this happens on Wednesday 4 September, the Bill could then be introduced in the House of Lords on Thursday 5 September. The House of Lords is a self-regulating chamber, meaning that the ability to restrict time for debate, or the length of Peers’ speeches, is limited.

The Cooper-Letwin Bill took up two days of debate in the House of Lords even though the Bill’s promoters had originally hoped to complete all stages in one day.

If the House of Lords amends the Bill in any way (for example, to clarify the drafting, or to change the approach of the Bill) it will have to return to the House of Commons for ‘ping pong’. The Bill can only receive Royal Assent, and become law, once both Houses have agreed the final text.


https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/br ... extension/
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

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Court of Session has just ruled that prorogation was lawful. Can't be particularly helpful for the parallel Gina Miller judicial review in England.

All starting to feel very much like yesterdays issue, however.
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

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Just waiting for this to all blow over...

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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by Orange Cola »

NotoriousREV wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:24 am The Conservative party is fucked. The Anti-No Deal legislation will win today, the GE won’t and Boris will have to admit we can’t leave by the 31st (unless he pulls a deal from out of his arse somehow, which considering he’s not even been negotiating will be a miracle). Then, after the 31st there’ll be a No Confidence vote and the Brexit Party will split the remaining Tory vote and we’ll get a Lib/Lab coalition. You heard it here first.
This is what I thought, but then I remembered Corbin is the Labour leader and you can rely on him to fuck this scenario up. Now is the time for Labour to start to remove him.
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

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They could always do another vote of no confidence in him, like that last one he massively lost on. But he’d just ignore it.
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

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Orange Cola wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:49 am
NotoriousREV wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:24 am The Conservative party is fucked. The Anti-No Deal legislation will win today, the GE won’t and Boris will have to admit we can’t leave by the 31st (unless he pulls a deal from out of his arse somehow, which considering he’s not even been negotiating will be a miracle). Then, after the 31st there’ll be a No Confidence vote and the Brexit Party will split the remaining Tory vote and we’ll get a Lib/Lab coalition. You heard it here first.
This is what I thought, but then I remembered Corbin is the Labour leader and you can rely on him to fuck this scenario up. Now is the time for Labour to start to remove him.
To be fair to him, I think he's played this particular situation perfectly. He was very good yesterday when facing Johnson. I normally think he's shit, though, and he needs to go.
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by Swervin_Mervin »

Interesting take on the Bill and Royal Prerogative: https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/09/ ... s-consent/
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

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And that’s what I think will happen, he’ll push on with his own ideas whilst refusing to adapt and make the most of the situation around him to maximise his potential.

Remember when Porsche tried to buy VW group, it backfired and VW now own Porsche? It could be another one of those but substitute the Tories and Lab/Lib coalition.
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

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Orange Cola wrote: Wed Sep 04, 2019 1:14 pm Remember when Porsche tried to buy VW group, it backfired and VW now own Porsche? It could be another one of those but substitute the Tories and Lab/Lib coalition.
I know it's not your point but as a pedant, I can't resist. Yes, Porsche is owned by VAG, but in turn VAG is 52% owned by Porsche Automobil Holding SE.
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

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Even more pedantically, Porsche SE has >50% of the voting rights but only 30% of the economic interest in the VAG group. In addition, I believe the structure was only permitted to give Porsche SE de facto voting control as VAG management were appointed to management positions in Porsche SE to control the board. The actual Porsche AG company which makes the cars is a subsidiary of VAG as Rev notes! Slightly mind bending.
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