Bye Bye Boris!

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Nefarious
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by Nefarious »

Broccers wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:08 pm
Nefarious wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:59 pm
You only have to look at the parallel conversation with Broccers to see exactly what I'm talking about. Normal man-in-the-street kind of fella, voted Brexit, wants to "take back control", appears to now think open abuse of foreigners is OK if you think they might be hurting your pay packet. Fairly normal attitude at the moment from what I can make out.
Yet you want an independent Scotland :lol:

Honestly couldnt make it up.
You're making no sense man. I said I'd reluctantly vote for scottish independence as the least-worst option the the face of the massive English shitshow.

What does that have, even remotely, to do with me calling out your publicly stated comments as evidence of increasingly racist attitudes in the public discourse?
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough"
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Foz
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by Foz »

£12-£15 for a joiner in Edinburgh/London, eh?! It’s double that!
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Nefarious
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

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Foz wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:35 pm £12-£15 for a joiner in Edinburgh/London, eh?! It’s double that!
Depends whether you're the client or the employer!
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough"
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Broccers
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

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Foz wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:35 pm £12-£15 for a joiner in Edinburgh/London, eh?! It’s double that!
Depends if you employ Neil's slave labour :lol:
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Nefarious
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by Nefarious »

The silence speaks volumes...
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough"
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Broccers
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

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Nefarious wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:49 pm The silence speaks volumes...
Oh the racist thing not slave labour you enjoy.

I'm happy for the UK to continue in its current form of immigration - I'm accepting of the ghettos in my own city even tho some say they are not that great. I dont have kids so dont care much for the discussion on language and r.e. in schools. Is this the kind of answer required? :lol: :lol:

As for the EU thing exciting times ahead :D
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Nefarious
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by Nefarious »

Broccers wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:54 pm
Nefarious wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:49 pm The silence speaks volumes...
Oh the racist thing not slave labour you enjoy.

I'm happy for the UK to continue in its current form of immigration - I'm accepting of the ghettos in my own city even tho some say they are not that great. I dont have kids so dont care much for the discussion on language and r.e. in schools. Is this the kind of answer required? :lol: :lol:

As for the EU thing exciting times ahead :D
So, by way of recap:
Support brexit but not willing to state your reasons
State that abuse of non-brits in the street is OK because of perceived wage erosion
Fall back on hearsay when presented with facts about builders wages
Attempt some kind of non-sequeteur Scottish independence jibe when called out, and decline to offer any explanation.
Attempt some other distraction about wage rates, even though I've just told you they're double your mates.

In the words of Dara o'briain - Get in the fucking sack 🙄
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough"
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Broccers
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by Broccers »

I'm glad we disagree Neil. Healthy.

Maybe one day you'll wake up and realise you were wrong :)
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dinny_g
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by dinny_g »

ZedLeg wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:34 pm
dinny_g wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:09 pm
Broccers wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:47 pm My best mate lives and works in Spain Dinny - its not that simple - he fits air con and recently had to do a 6 month course to get n.i.c.e to continue working - night school and an exam in Spanish. He also pays the tax to work each month. Real world shizzle. But nothing to do with brexit :)
Yeah I know mate, that’s my point.

Person I know was a carpenter (female) who went to Spain to work. She needed to renew her work permit every 3 months. She can’t pay tax without a work permit. The work permit can only be applied for in a set 2’week period each quarter. Early and late applications are not considered. Even getting it to them on day 1 of the application period doesn’t guarantee you’ll get it in time to avoid emergency tax. Which you DONT get back.

She would budget €3k to €4K each year in lost tax.

The situation hasn’t changed despite now being married to a Spaniard, having 3 Spanish Kids, being granted permanent residency and now running her own company. Because despite being an EU citizen living in an EU member state, she’s not Spanish.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, the EU is not the Utopia of equal treatment that many think it is.
Yeah but none of that is the EU, it’s Spain. The EU didn’t make up their employment or tax laws.

Brexit is going to make it a lot worse for British people living and working on the continent.

Again Zed, that’s my point.

There was as much “Rights and privileges we’ll lose if you vote Leave” rubbish spouted during the campaign as there was “Brexit + Control we’ll gain’.

I’m not commenting on right or wrong, deal or no deal, stay or leave - just that in my experience, from speaking with people, the Perception and Reality, Economic factors aside, of EU membership are very different.
JLv3.0 wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:26 pm I say this rarely Dave, but listen to Dinny because he's right.
Rich B wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 1:57 pm but Dinny was right…
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NotoriousREV
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

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I don’t know if what you two are talking about in terms of working in Spain is specific to the building trade but my mum, stepdad, sister and 2 brothers have lived in Spain for 25 years and have never experienced what you describe. They’re British citizens with Residencia.
Last edited by NotoriousREV on Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by V8Granite »

On the way immigration has hurt the skilled manual labour area I have some thoughts after working in the area for 21 years.

This is mainly around Peterborough and shipyards.

Immigration was always healthy in Peterborough. I’ve said many times how diverse it was and how a real mixed group of people was enjoyable to grow up in. Work wise there has always been a good mix, a lot of Italians came to Peterborough along with India, Bangladesh, Pakistan areas plus a small amount of Chinese etc. There were a few Polish I was aware of but not in great numbers from what I can remember.
Once I started work in 1998 I noticed more Eastern European’s, all was lovely and then probably a couple of years before I started to travel with work, so 2002 ish there felt like a big influx. The community started to split and there is a definite segregation of communities now. From Werrington to Peterborough town you go through the India, then Eastern Europe, then Rasta area before going into the beautiful nirvana that is Peterborough :lol:

Very little integration compared to before and it happened very quickly. My Father came to the area in 1978 and worked in the same factory I started work in and noticed a much more gradual change.

Within the shipyards, well the unions and union style of working ruined it for themselves. We had a mass of highly skilled labour who went on strikes, blamed everyone but their own unions greed and when the cheaper labour from Eastern Europe came in they were quickly shown that they were not needed.
Simple things like working to the bell, the UK guys were taking the mick, the bussed in labour (literally a polish bus in A&P Tyne) worked from bell to bell. For Super Intendants this is important and and also for shipyards as they know they won’t get any hassle from them and they will do whatever overtime they can get. The problem was though that in general the skill level was far lower, the quality worse and there was no guarantee the next ship would have the same team as they were more nomadic and went from job to job. You never quite knew if you were getting a mechanical fitter to help you or carpet fitter.
This is again I believe because there was too many coming in too fast and it was easy money. This happens with every trade I believe. Wages dropped through the floor aswell. I had a brilliant team with me Falmouth, all time served and they would take what they could get, we asked for them specifically as their quality was so good, which is important for hugely expensive kit. They were all from Falmouth though as we always knew they would be available and we always knew what we would get.

On another note, my friend does refurbs in offices, schools, homes etc and he has 3 Romanian guys who work for him and are great and they did a lovely job on my house, they were not cheap though, he just uses them as they are good.

Let everyone in if they can be a benefit, their family can come too even if ultimately they cost more than they give back. Just do it in a slow and controlled manner.

I realise this makes me a bigoted right wing racist but I can’t be, as I helped fix my neighbours car today and he is black and everything :shock:

Dave!
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dinny_g
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

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NotoriousREV wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:39 pm I don’t know if what you two are talking about in terms of working in Spain is specific to the building trade but my mum, stepdad, sister and 2 brothers have lived in Spain for 25 years and have never experienced what you describe. They’re British citizens with Residencia.
Good for them and I’m sure deserved.

This simply points to the inconsistency of life “In the EU”

And specific to the building Trade and then a “Ground Agent” Business looking after 50 or so Holiday let’s. ( Cleaning, Maintenance, Airport Transfers etc.

Canary Islands if that matters
JLv3.0 wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:26 pm I say this rarely Dave, but listen to Dinny because he's right.
Rich B wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 1:57 pm but Dinny was right…
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NotoriousREV
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by NotoriousREV »

dinny_g wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:00 pm
NotoriousREV wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:39 pm I don’t know if what you two are talking about in terms of working in Spain is specific to the building trade but my mum, stepdad, sister and 2 brothers have lived in Spain for 25 years and have never experienced what you describe. They’re British citizens with Residencia.
Good for them and I’m sure deserved.

This simply points to the inconsistency of life “In the EU”

And specific to the building Trade and then a “Ground Agent” Business looking after 50 or so Holiday let’s. ( Cleaning, Maintenance, Airport Transfers etc.

Canary Islands if that matters
Same. Tenerife specifically. Between them they’ve had jobs and also run several businesses. I’ve even asked them tonight and they have no idea what you’re on about :lol:
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

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Ok but with respect, I’ll base my opinions on the person I know.

I’m sure you understand.
JLv3.0 wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:26 pm I say this rarely Dave, but listen to Dinny because he's right.
Rich B wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 1:57 pm but Dinny was right…
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

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Honestly, I suspect you’ve misunderstood something they’ve told you.
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dinny_g
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

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I suspect you might but I haven’t...
JLv3.0 wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:26 pm I say this rarely Dave, but listen to Dinny because he's right.
Rich B wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 1:57 pm but Dinny was right…
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NotoriousREV
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

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European Union nationals do not require work or residence permits to live and work in Spain, although if staying in the country for more than three months they will have to register as residents.
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

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Again, with respect, I’ll base my opinions on the person I know.
JLv3.0 wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:26 pm I say this rarely Dave, but listen to Dinny because he's right.
Rich B wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 1:57 pm but Dinny was right…
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NotoriousREV
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

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And I’ll take my advice from the Spanish government pages, plus the people I know :lol:

https://www.immigrationspain.es/en/work ... -employee/

As an EU citizen you do not need a work permit. The permit you’re talking about doesn’t apply to those born in Spain, EU citizens or citizens of Chile or Peru.

Also, it lasts 12 months, not 3 months. You can only apply for it if your job appears on the acceptable jobs list which is published every 3 months. It takes 3-4 months to come through.
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Re: Bye Bye Boris!

Post by Swervin_Mervin »

NotoriousREV wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:31 pm Do we think the reduction in Boris' majority will precipitate an early election? He's got zero chance of getting a deal through, surely?
I think he knew this was coming. May putting up Davies in Brecon again was clearly risky, and you've got that other fella that's suggested he'll defect to Lib Dems. He's nicely said he'll take the summer recess to have a think, whilst Jo Swinson was waiting on his decision prior to her shuffling her cabinet. Chances are though that there'll be no majority by the time Parliament returns. He has to go for GE surely. It's actually playing into his hands fairly well so far...
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