EU elections

[drcarlos]

Or dumb enough to not understand.

I've seen a number of people sold down the river when taking a new job which was a step up from the last (maybe they are power hungry or maybe they feel they can do more than they are already) with promises of this and promises of that. They then get into the role and learn the nuances of the organisation or area they are now leading and these promises either melt away (due to financial constraints) or are tempered to the extent that nothing can really be done by them. I doubt government is any different to big business in this way.
As to why someone would walk blindly into a mine field without checking with the people already there first. It's highly likely that those that knew what was going on were in backside covering mode so they will not let on about any displeasure as it would leading them being quickly exited stage left. They keep quiet let the person at the top carry the can and look to move on quietly themselves without rocking the boat and becoming known as a trouble maker.
I don't support him by the way just making an observation about the situation as a whole.

As a general rule I agree with your points, but this was a very public and publicly visible role. He surely did the basic research one would have hoped.

You can only act on what you know.

You have to speak with people already on the ground already in post. If they know things aren't going quite to plan and they know someone at the top is the one micromanaging the situation, well the information that you get when you make enquiries will not be correct and may paint an overly rosy picture of the situation. They may give you 'selected' docs that look good as people cover their own backsides and try not to be labelled the troublemaker.
It's only then when you are in the job things start to unfold and you get that oh shit what have I let myself in for here rude awakening.

I'm guessing that it's probably not as cut and dried as the MSM make out with nuances that they won't print as it doesn't fit a narrative.

All I know is we have no say (well unless some of are are Tory members) in what will play out here and will likely be lumbered with someone that is just as bad as the last 4 PM's.

[DeskJockey]

No argument there!

[Swervin_Mervin]

Only the last 4?

[drcarlos]

Only the last 4?

Wondered if that might be mentioned. I don't know enough about Majors time in office as to whether he offered a break after the Thatcher years, I don't have enough time to read about it either. So i'll leave it at 4.

[GG.]

Major signed us up to Maastricht without a referendum (at a point when there was a clear and obvious constitutional reason to) so arguably he's the reason this thread exists now in 2019! I think you can increase it to 5 safely.

[Marv]

Major signed us up to Maastricht without a referendum

Was that without a parliamentary referendum?

I don't think there's actually been a decent PM since I was born (1980) some have seemed okay to begin with, but they inevitably end up being shit.

Wonder what it's like to have a decent Prime Minister. Must be nice.

[duncs500]

Do you guys really think that a universally popular PM could or will ever exist outside the realms of incredibly rose tinted spectacles?

[Swervin_Mervin]

Do you guys really think that a universally popular PM could or will ever exist outside the realms of incredibly rose tinted spectacles?

[drcarlos]

Do you guys really think that a universally popular PM could or will ever exist outside the realms of incredibly rose tinted spectacles?

Moon on a stick please

[Jobbo]

I saw the outcome of the Peterborough by-election on the Daily Mail's website first. So you don't have to click, here's the headline: "Shock as Labour squeak by in Peterborough by-election - but with less than third of the vote"

Labour got 30.9%, slightly more than the 30.5% the Brexit Party got overall in the EU elections. I don't remember seeing any headlines along the lines of 'Shock as Brexit Party squeak by in EU elections - but with less than third of the vote'

The clear mandate from this by-election (in a constituency which was originally over 60% in favour of leaving the EU) is for a second referendum, then!

[GG.]

Labour got 30.9%, slightly more than the 30.5% the Brexit Party got overall in the EU elections. I don't remember seeing any headlines along the lines of 'Shock as Brexit Party squeak by in EU elections - but with less than third of the vote'

That's because this is first past the post and the EU elections are PR. Obviously, the former means they won the seat by the skin of their teeth (with another antisemetic candidate).

[NotoriousREV]

Labour got 30.9%, slightly more than the 30.5% the Brexit Party got overall in the EU elections. I don't remember seeing any headlines along the lines of 'Shock as Brexit Party squeak by in EU elections - but with less than third of the vote'

That's because this is first past the post and the EU elections are PR. Obviously, the former means they won the seat by the skin of their teeth (with another antisemetic candidate).

*sigh*

PR is only used to determine the number of MEPs for each area, you still only have a single vote for a particular party (or independent candidate). The Brexit Party still only got 30.5% of the vote.

[GG.]

I'm pointing out that getting 30.5% vote share has a very different effect in a first past the post system to one with PR - its a justification why you'd have a different commentary for each. Apparently this was the lowest ever percentage of the vote in a by-election for a winning candidate. Hence why its being talked about in such terms.

We are also comparing a 30.9% national vote share with a single seat. So many apples and oranges.

[IanF]

Jobbo, I imagine it’s “squeaked” as Labour only got 680ish more votes than Brexit party, and nothing to do with the percentages involved, but I’m not reading the Daily Mail to find out.

The Conservatives did better than I’d’ve thought possible. I think the Brexit party will end up as UKIP mark ii, ie nowhere.

[NotoriousREV]

Funny how the Mail is talking about the Brexit vote being split. Sounds like they want to add together the votes for the 2 parties to claim a Brexit victory

[Jobbo]

Farage was talking about the Brexit Party winning their first seat. They didn't, in a constituency that was over 60% pro-leave. They didn't even get as high a percentage of the vote as they did overall in the EU elections; and for the East of England region in which this constituency sits, they were nearly 9% down (37.8% to 28.9%). That's a poor showing.

As usual, Nigel talks a good game but the figures don't bear out what he's saying.

[Jobbo]

Jobbo, I imagine it’s “squeaked” as Labour only got 680ish more votes than Brexit party, and nothing to do with the percentages involved, but I’m not reading the Daily Mail to find out.

The Conservatives did better than I’d’ve thought possible. I think the Brexit party will end up as UKIP mark ii, ie nowhere.

683 votes - but a difference of 2% of the electorate. It's the usual Daily Mail spin but I hadn't realised they were so pro-Farage.

[IanF]

Jobbo, I imagine it’s “squeaked” as Labour only got 680ish more votes than Brexit party, and nothing to do with the percentages involved, but I’m not reading the Daily Mail to find out.

The Conservatives did better than I’d’ve thought possible. I think the Brexit party will end up as UKIP mark ii, ie nowhere.

683 votes - but a difference of 2% of the electorate. It's the usual Daily Mail spin but I hadn't realised they were so pro-Farage.

Brexit innit, so must be good..

[GG.]

Jobbo, I imagine it’s “squeaked” as Labour only got 680ish more votes than Brexit party, and nothing to do with the percentages involved, but I’m not reading the Daily Mail to find out.

The Conservatives did better than I’d’ve thought possible. I think the Brexit party will end up as UKIP mark ii, ie nowhere.

683 votes - but a difference of 2% of the electorate. It's the usual Daily Mail spin but I hadn't realised they were so pro-Farage.

2% of votes cast rather than eligible voters/electorate I would think.

[IanF]

I’m guessing the fact Farage did so well will ensure BoJo is our next PM... no one else has the required MSM presence that seems to be going down so well with the general populace.