Trump

[drcarlos]

Now, I’m not saying I actually believe this myself, but I find myself in a position of having to choose whose propaganda to believe: USA or Iran.

This plane fell out of the sky a couple of hours after the missile launches. It was taking off from Iran’s busiest airport, on a normal flight path, with full tower clearance and ATC contact, plus a fully working transponder squawking a civilian code, flying a normal, authorised flight route. How feasible is it that Iran’s military are so incompetent that this aircraft became a target?

Who benefits from the story that it was shot down by an anti-aircraft missile? The US and a US corporation.

The two “unconfirmed” videos: the one of the supposed missile strike was lucky, wasn’t it? Guy having a smoke in his garden and filming the sky for no apparent reason...

The whole thing stinks to me. I don’t know what to believe but I feel like we’re all being fed bullshit.

A 30 year old soviet missile system being operated by a regime that clearly deal in bullshit themselves, incompetently too. Seems plausible but let’s see what the crash site yields (although there are reports its being cleared already by bulldozer without the investigators there which if true will be pretty damning) as there should missile debris there and the black box should show the impact too.

[Broccers]

Strange coincidence tho as everyone thought at the time.

Secondly why was it even allowed to take off when it's unknown if full scale retaliation might be on it's way?

[NotoriousREV]

Now, I’m not saying I actually believe this myself, but I find myself in a position of having to choose whose propaganda to believe: USA or Iran.

This plane fell out of the sky a couple of hours after the missile launches. It was taking off from Iran’s busiest airport, on a normal flight path, with full tower clearance and ATC contact, plus a fully working transponder squawking a civilian code, flying a normal, authorised flight route. How feasible is it that Iran’s military are so incompetent that this aircraft became a target?

Who benefits from the story that it was shot down by an anti-aircraft missile? The US and a US corporation.

The two “unconfirmed” videos: the one of the supposed missile strike was lucky, wasn’t it? Guy having a smoke in his garden and filming the sky for no apparent reason...

The whole thing stinks to me. I don’t know what to believe but I feel like we’re all being fed bullshit.

A 30 year old soviet missile system being operated by a regime that clearly deal in bullshit themselves, incompetently too. Seems plausible but let’s see what the crash site yields (although there are reports its being cleared already by bulldozer without the investigators there which if true will be pretty damning) as there should missile debris there and the black box should show the impact too.

The thing is, the Iranian military isn’t all that incompetent. They have old tech, but they’re a far more organised military than Iraq ever was.

My gut says both sides are lying to capitalise on what’s happened.

[Gwaredd]

Planes don't usually fall out of the sky at 8000ft due to an engine failure though, especially with no mayday call.

Perhaps they read the timetable wrong and thought it was a US jet?

[NotoriousREV]

Well, let’s see if Ukraine or Canada ever get full access to the black box data.

[drcarlos]

Well, let’s see if Ukraine or Canada ever get full access to the black box data.

And the crash site/wreckage, there will traces of explosives on the fuselage if it was a missile strike. Everything highly circumstantial and you can’t rely on the us reports of satellite information on the launches on their own. It needs corroboration with black box data and wreckage analysis.

[Mito Man]

There’s that picture of the missile tip a mile away from the crash but I don’t understand how it appears to be in mint condition after having downed an airplane and fallen to the ground.

I did see a video of a dot of light flying towards another dot of light which then exploded.

[RobYob]

There’s that picture of the missile tip a mile away from the crash but I don’t understand how it appears to be in mint condition after having downed an airplane and fallen to the ground.

The tip of a missile will contain the guidance gear in a very tough casing with warhead between that and the rocket motor. Being anti-aircraft the warhead will be comparatively quite small as well.

[Broccers]

Shock horror

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... hot-plane/

[NotoriousREV]

Shock horror

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... hot-plane/

The most surprising thing here is that they’ve admitted it.

[jamcg]

Shock horror

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... hot-plane/

The most surprising thing here is that they’ve admitted it.

Don’t think they had a choice, problem they had was they got this guy to handle the initial media response

[Orange Cola]

There’s that picture of the missile tip a mile away from the crash but I don’t understand how it appears to be in mint condition after having downed an airplane and fallen to the ground.

I did see a video of a dot of light flying towards another dot of light which then exploded.

I don’t know what system Iran was using but there is a type of anti aircraft missile which drops the nose off the front at almost point blank and deploys multiple smaller ordinances to cover a wider area and effectively shred the fuselage of the target.

A quick look on Wiki and it appears Iran do use that sort of type of missile

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-200_(missile)

“ The warhead is either 217 kg (478 lb) high-explosive fragmentation (16,000 × 2 g fragmentation pellets and 21,000 × 3.5 g pellets) triggered by radar proximity fuse or command signal”

[Mito Man]

It was a Tor missile. I did see some twitter explanation that it’s a proximity explosive so explodes just before impact which explains why the tip is pretty undamaged. That said I would expect a projectile going Mach 2.8 to still continue going and hit the target with some heft but I guess most bits of passenger planes are soft hollow aluminium.

[Orange Cola]

It was a Tor missile. I did see some twitter explanation that it’s a proximity explosive so explodes just before impact which explains why the tip is pretty undamaged. That said I would expect a projectile going Mach 2.8 to still continue going and hit the target with some heft but I guess most bits of passenger planes are soft hollow aluminium.

That’ll be this one then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_missile_system

[RobYob]

That said I would expect a projectile going Mach 2.8 to still continue going and hit the target

It's pretty unlikely that the guidance system hit anything though isn't it. That's what the enormous cloud of shrapnel detonated by proximity is for.

[dinny_g]

Very interesting Guardian "Long Read" today on the way Trump approaches things...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... hite-house

I particularly like his approach of doing unlawful things because he can then just issue pardons...

He really is something else

[DaveE]

Very interesting Guardian "Long Read" today on the way Trump approaches things...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... hite-house

I particularly like his approach of doing unlawful things because he can then just issue pardons...

He really is something else

Funnily enough, I've just finished reading that.

It's mad isn't it?

Zero fucks given.

And they way he suddenly changed his opinion of Kirstjen Nielsen simply because Lou Dobbs said to him she was "very smart" or something.

I know it's all to easy to jump on the "he's mentally ill" but his really is crazy, unhinged behaviour.

[dinny_g]

Make you see why the second amendment is so important to some folks...

[ZedLeg]

It’s all getting a bit opening sequence to a post apocalypse movie over there just now.

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[Rich B]