Ghosn arrested
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Ghosn arrested
BBC News - Nissan boss Carlos Ghosn arrested over 'misconduct'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46259420
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46259420
Re: Ghosn arrested
I wonder how much this will affect Nissan and Renault? Hasn't he been the architect of their current success?
- DeskJockey
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Re: Ghosn arrested
He has. Certainly Nissan has grown under his leadership.
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Re: Ghosn arrested
Here one minute... Ghosn the next
- NotoriousREV
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Re: Ghosn arrested
I think it is more or less 'Go-un'.
Re: Ghosn arrested
Carlos Goooooun.
Anyway the only place he’s Ghosn is to prison.
Anyway the only place he’s Ghosn is to prison.
How about not having a sig at all?
Re: Ghosn arrested
The whole thing smells. Nissan CEO wanted Ghosn gone and this seems like a very convenient way of making it happen. Also think it would be very difficult for Ghosn to have under reported his income. As one of the top 5 executives at those companies, his income is public record. His taxes would have been done by one of the major accounting firms that would never allow him to under report.
- NotoriousREV
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Re: Ghosn arrested
Funnily enough, I was in a meeting with our in-house lawyer today and she was talking about how if you ever need to get rid of an exec all you need to do is go through their expenses. (We’re not getting rid of an exec, it was in relation to us getting a threat of an audit).
Middle-aged Dirtbag
Re: Ghosn arrested
Not at his level though, I would be shocked if all his expense reports weren't automatically audited.NotoriousREV wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:32 pm Funnily enough, I was in a meeting with our in-house lawyer today and she was talking about how if you ever need to get rid of an exec all you need to do is go through their expenses. (We’re not getting rid of an exec, it was in relation to us getting a threat of an audit).
- NotoriousREV
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Re: Ghosn arrested
I must admit, I’m not sure how he is supposed to have misrepresented his salary. Even our little FTSE250 company has to have an independent remuneration committee. There’s checks and balances that are supposed to stop this sort of thing.
Middle-aged Dirtbag
Re: Ghosn arrested
I'm guessing he doesn't get paid in cash via PAYE. I expect his remuneration is a complex (normally tax driven) blend of cash and non-cash assets.
The non-cash elements may be liquidated gradually with lock out periods. I guess he could have undereported his 'income' to the Japanese stock exchange by incorrectly declaring what non-cash income he had chosen to liquidate or at what price, or if elements of income were deferred, when he actually received them and therefore what his 'income' was for a particular period.
I'm sure there is a whole host of ways he could have manipulated it - though that isn't to say it isn't a stitch up by the Japanese based off the fact they hated being the larger partner in the alliance but with less decision making power than they thought they deserved.
I admit misrepresenting 'salary' implies something simple but they're probably using that word out of context. Remember the Japanese call all office-workers 'salarymen'!
The non-cash elements may be liquidated gradually with lock out periods. I guess he could have undereported his 'income' to the Japanese stock exchange by incorrectly declaring what non-cash income he had chosen to liquidate or at what price, or if elements of income were deferred, when he actually received them and therefore what his 'income' was for a particular period.
I'm sure there is a whole host of ways he could have manipulated it - though that isn't to say it isn't a stitch up by the Japanese based off the fact they hated being the larger partner in the alliance but with less decision making power than they thought they deserved.
I admit misrepresenting 'salary' implies something simple but they're probably using that word out of context. Remember the Japanese call all office-workers 'salarymen'!
Re: Ghosn arrested
Yes but all the non-cash elements would still need to be exercised via the company that issued them (i.e. Nissan) and would be reported as part of his overall comp.GG. wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:11 pm I'm guessing he doesn't get paid in cash via PAYE. I expect his remuneration is a complex (normally tax driven) blend of cash and non-cash assets.
The non-cash elements may be liquidated gradually with lock out periods. I guess he could have undereported his 'income' to the Japanese stock exchange by incorrectly declaring what non-cash income he had chosen to liquidate or at what price, or if elements of income were deferred, when he actually received them and therefore what his 'income' was for a particular period.
I'm sure there is a whole host of ways he could have manipulated it - though that isn't to say it isn't a stitch up by the Japanese based off the fact they hated being the larger partner in the alliance but with less decision making power than they thought they deserved.
I admit misrepresenting 'salary' implies something simple but they're probably using that word out of context. Remember the Japanese call all office-workers 'salarymen'!
Re: Ghosn arrested
It does half make me wonder if it's an Olympus style stitch-up of their CEO.SSO wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:56 pm The whole thing smells. Nissan CEO wanted Ghosn gone and this seems like a very convenient way of making it happen. Also think it would be very difficult for Ghosn to have under reported his income. As one of the top 5 executives at those companies, his income is public record. His taxes would have been done by one of the major accounting firms that would never allow him to under report.
Oui, je suis un motard.
- NotoriousREV
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Re: Ghosn arrested
Exactly this.SSO wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:24 pmYes but all the non-cash elements would still need to be exercised via the company that issued them (i.e. Nissan) and would be reported as part of his overall comp.GG. wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:11 pm I'm guessing he doesn't get paid in cash via PAYE. I expect his remuneration is a complex (normally tax driven) blend of cash and non-cash assets.
The non-cash elements may be liquidated gradually with lock out periods. I guess he could have undereported his 'income' to the Japanese stock exchange by incorrectly declaring what non-cash income he had chosen to liquidate or at what price, or if elements of income were deferred, when he actually received them and therefore what his 'income' was for a particular period.
I'm sure there is a whole host of ways he could have manipulated it - though that isn't to say it isn't a stitch up by the Japanese based off the fact they hated being the larger partner in the alliance but with less decision making power than they thought they deserved.
I admit misrepresenting 'salary' implies something simple but they're probably using that word out of context. Remember the Japanese call all office-workers 'salarymen'!
GG, do you imagine he can just award himself stock options, or dividends, or bonuses, or cash without referencing the remuneration committee? It shouldn’t be possible. If he has managed to do this, then the Chairman of the board and the auditors have utterly failed. The shareholders should be holding everyone to account here.
Middle-aged Dirtbag
Re: Ghosn arrested
I never said he could 'award' himself any of this. I was talking about properly allocated non-cash assets whose allocation has been signed off. These accusations are about misreporting to a stock exchange body, not misfeasance against the company.
It will be up to him when he elects to exercise stock options or liquidate non-cash assets that have been allocated to him and the whole point of being allocated those assets is that they are not taxable at the point of allocation and may not be reported as 'income' or 'salary' until a subsequent point in time which allows you to maximise use of taxable reliefs that are capped yearly, for example. He then may have manipulated or misreported to the exchange either when he realised those assets or for what price and therefore the 'salary' or income in the relevant periods in which he did so.
I'm not clear what ongoing monitoring the remuneration committee would have post allocation, i.e. as to when he chooses to liquidate those assets. Perhaps SSO is correct that they need to be notified of stock options being exercised but maybe not if they're held by an intermediary or not in a listed company - you're assuming a lot about how Japanese listed companies work and in any event he was supposed to have had the collusion of a director on the board.
Anyway it will be interesting to see what happened when all the facts come out (assuming they do).
It will be up to him when he elects to exercise stock options or liquidate non-cash assets that have been allocated to him and the whole point of being allocated those assets is that they are not taxable at the point of allocation and may not be reported as 'income' or 'salary' until a subsequent point in time which allows you to maximise use of taxable reliefs that are capped yearly, for example. He then may have manipulated or misreported to the exchange either when he realised those assets or for what price and therefore the 'salary' or income in the relevant periods in which he did so.
I'm not clear what ongoing monitoring the remuneration committee would have post allocation, i.e. as to when he chooses to liquidate those assets. Perhaps SSO is correct that they need to be notified of stock options being exercised but maybe not if they're held by an intermediary or not in a listed company - you're assuming a lot about how Japanese listed companies work and in any event he was supposed to have had the collusion of a director on the board.
Anyway it will be interesting to see what happened when all the facts come out (assuming they do).
Re: Ghosn arrested
Im not exactly sure how Nissan handles restricted stock and option grants but they would definitely need to be exercised through the company. I don't know of a single company which would allow you to transfer stock options to a 3rd party.GG. wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:12 pm
I'm not clear what ongoing monitoring the remuneration committee would have post allocation, i.e. as to when he chooses to liquidate those assets. Perhaps SSO is correct that they need to be notified of stock options being exercised but maybe not if they're held by an intermediary or not in a listed company - you're assuming a lot about how Japanese listed companies work and in any event he was supposed to have had the collusion of a director on the board.
Anyway it will be interesting to see what happened when all the facts come out (assuming they do).
- NotoriousREV
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Re: Ghosn arrested
It isn’t legally possible to have the options exercised through a 3rd party. And in every regulated market, the company must declare any buying or selling activity by the board. Even roping another exec into his scheme should be picked up by the various checks and balances, so even if Ghosn has been up to no good, others have fucked up so expect further sackings and resignations. If you were a large institutional investor in Nissan, I’d expect you’d be asking some very pointed questions about now, given the 30% drop in value of your investment.
Middle-aged Dirtbag