Ineos Grenadier (not dead)

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Orange Cola
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Re: Ineos Grenadier (not dead)

Post by Orange Cola »

Jobbo wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:33 pm
Orange Cola wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:16 pm
ZedLeg wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:47 pm Full size LC is about the same size as the Defender. The (not real LC) one that OC posted is about 4 inches narrower :lol:
Picking and choosing which Land Cruiser is a "real one" or not is really clutching at straws, especially when there is a Defender 90 to compete against the smaller wheelbase offerings :lol:
Well there's one model of Land Cruiser sold in the UK in two different wheelbases, and one model of Defender sold in the UK in two different wheelbases.

Picking and choosing? :lol:
Saying a non-Amazon LC is not a real LC is picking and choosing, yes. I didn't say a 90 wasn't a real Defender because it's a bit smaller ;)
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Re: Ineos Grenadier (not dead)

Post by Swervin_Mervin »

Orange Cola wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:45 pm
Jobbo wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:33 pm
Orange Cola wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:16 pm

Picking and choosing which Land Cruiser is a "real one" or not is really clutching at straws, especially when there is a Defender 90 to compete against the smaller wheelbase offerings :lol:
Well there's one model of Land Cruiser sold in the UK in two different wheelbases, and one model of Defender sold in the UK in two different wheelbases.

Picking and choosing? :lol:
Saying a non-Amazon LC is not a real LC is picking and choosing, yes. I didn't say a 90 wasn't a real Defender because it's a bit smaller ;)
Is the 90 any narrower than the 110 though?
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Re: Ineos Grenadier (not dead)

Post by Mito Man »

It’s a bit of an odd comparison as I don’t think a Prado is at all related to an actual Land Cruiser, down to a different chassis.
Bit like saying a Velar is a smaller wheelbase Range Rover.
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Re: Ineos Grenadier (not dead)

Post by Jobbo »

It’s only OC who is getting worked up about the fact the Land Cruiser available in the UK isn’t the largest available in other markets. Fact is the UK market Land Cruiser will fit where the rather oversized Defender won’t.
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Re: Ineos Grenadier (not dead)

Post by Orange Cola »

Jobbo wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:42 am It’s only OC who is getting worked up about the fact the Land Cruiser available in the UK isn’t the largest available in other markets.
No I’m not, I’ve never said I have a problem with that. The issue is Zed thinks the LC sells in ‘very small numbers’ which it doesn’t and he also stated the LC isn’t a competitor for the Defender then claimed a smaller variant ‘isn’t a real LC’, which is ridiculous because it clearly is.
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Re: Ineos Grenadier (not dead)

Post by ZedLeg »

As an owner of a real LC I feel comfortable with my assertation that the small one isn’t a real one 😉.

The comparison between 90 and 110 defenders is stupid because the two LCs aren’t even built on the same platform.
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Re: Ineos Grenadier (not dead)

Post by Orange Cola »

Right, so we’re just going to conveniently completely ignore what Toyota call their own cars which they’ve designed :lol:

It doesn’t matter what platform it’s built off, it’s still a clear competitor :lol:
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Re: Ineos Grenadier (not dead)

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To reframe this a little, is a Range Rover Sport the same as a Range Rover and should sales for both be counted together?

I think the issue here is that we’ve been talking about entirely different cars :lol:
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Re: Ineos Grenadier (not dead)

Post by Beany »

ZedLeg wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:24 am As an owner of a real LC I feel comfortable with my assertation that the small one isn’t a real one 😉.

The comparison between 90 and 110 defenders is stupid because the two LCs aren’t even built on the same platform.
I genuinely don't know there are multiple different LCs on different platforms.

Anyone want to clarify?
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Re: Ineos Grenadier (not dead)

Post by Jobbo »

Beany wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:23 am
ZedLeg wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:24 am As an owner of a real LC I feel comfortable with my assertation that the small one isn’t a real one 😉.

The comparison between 90 and 110 defenders is stupid because the two LCs aren’t even built on the same platform.
I genuinely don't know there are multiple different LCs on different platforms.

Anyone want to clarify?
There are, but only one platform is sold in the UK now.
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Re: Ineos Grenadier (not dead)

Post by Zonda_ »

Orange Cola wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:29 am Right, so we’re just going to conveniently completely ignore what Toyota call their own cars which they’ve designed :lol:

It doesn’t matter what platform it’s built off, it’s still a clear competitor :lol:
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Re: Ineos Grenadier (not dead)

Post by Orange Cola »

ZedLeg wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:33 am To reframe this a little, is a Range Rover Sport the same as a Range Rover and should sales for both be counted together?

I think the issue here is that we’ve been talking about entirely different cars :lol:
That’s a pretty bad example you’ve managed to pick there and there’s no need to re-frame anything, they’re both Range Rovers, one is simply a shorter wheel base than the other and there is even a long wheel base RR making it a set of three. All off them are off the same platform ;) Would anyone say a RRS isn’t a proper RR like you did with the Land Cruiser line up? No, because that’s a stupid thing to say ;)
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Re: Ineos Grenadier (not dead)

Post by Swervin_Mervin »

Orange Cola wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:29 pm It's because someone on the internet is wrong ;)

Evidently width doesn't matter all that much to 90+% of customers, on the whole cars have been getting bigger for years and although people complain they can't fit into parking spaces any more the evidence is that folk are ok with that and are happy to live with tight parking bays because they still feel it's more important to have, or they want a bigger/wider car all of the other times.
You say that but anything over 2m wide is getting pretty big and that just seems absurd for a Defender. As you say though I doubt the target demographic of Chesire dwelling middle aged man won't care too much.
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Re: Ineos Grenadier (not dead)

Post by ZedLeg »

Orange Cola wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:53 pm
ZedLeg wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:33 am To reframe this a little, is a Range Rover Sport the same as a Range Rover and should sales for both be counted together?

I think the issue here is that we’ve been talking about entirely different cars :lol:
That’s a pretty bad example you’ve managed to pick there and there’s no need to re-frame anything, they’re both Range Rovers, one is simply a shorter wheel base than the other and there is even a long wheel base RR making it a set of three. All off them are off the same platform ;) Would anyone say a RRS isn’t a proper RR like you did with the Land Cruiser line up? No, because that’s a stupid thing to say ;)
That was a really long way to not answer my question :lol:
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Re: Ineos Grenadier (not dead)

Post by Rich B »

So if someone wants to know how many new BMW Z4s are wood, they have to include the Supra numbers too?
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Orange Cola
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Re: Ineos Grenadier (not dead)

Post by Orange Cola »

I’d personally prefer to see cars decreasing in size again but that’s not going to happen.
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Beany
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Re: Ineos Grenadier (not dead)

Post by Beany »

I think the important point here is that modern large 4x4s are large. And are mostly cunts cars.
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Re: Ineos Grenadier (not dead)

Post by Orange Cola »

ZedLeg wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:06 pm
Orange Cola wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:53 pm
ZedLeg wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:33 am To reframe this a little, is a Range Rover Sport the same as a Range Rover and should sales for both be counted together?

I think the issue here is that we’ve been talking about entirely different cars :lol:
That’s a pretty bad example you’ve managed to pick there and there’s no need to re-frame anything, they’re both Range Rovers, one is simply a shorter wheel base than the other and there is even a long wheel base RR making it a set of three. All off them are off the same platform ;) Would anyone say a RRS isn’t a proper RR like you did with the Land Cruiser line up? No, because that’s a stupid thing to say ;)
That was a really long way to not answer my question :lol:
That’s because it’s a poor question which you’re trying to use to justify saying a smaller version of the LC ‘is not a proper LC’ and shouldn’t be compared to a Defender :lol:

Here’s an extract from an article from WhatCar, unless over night they’ve become ‘not a proper motoring magazine’, I think they’re pretty good at working out competitor cars in a segment because you know, that’s pretty fundamental to how they do their day job.

“Over the next few pages we’ll tell you if the new Defender is capable of living up to its iconic nameplate and how it compares with rivals such as the Jeep Wrangler, Mercedes G-Class and Toyota Land Cruiser”

https://www.whatcar.com/land-rover/defe ... iew/n21198
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Re: Ineos Grenadier (not dead)

Post by ZedLeg »

My point was that I was talking about the full size Land Cruiser not the smaller one. Which wasn’t traditionally a rival to a Defender, more of a Disco and Range Rover rival.

The Range Rover comparison was based on viewing two separate cars as one when they’re actually quite different.

I’m amazed that it took this much explaining tbh. You seem determined to be confused about this though.
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Re: Ineos Grenadier (not dead)

Post by Jobbo »

Rich B wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:11 pm So if someone wants to know how many new BMW Z4s are wood, they have to include the Supra numbers too?
Are Morgan making Z4s now?
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