Specialist Cars of Malton

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Beany
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Re: Specialist Cars of Malton

Post by Beany »

I don't suppose you expect to have your pants pulled down by a 'prestige' dealer who advertises in the fancy mags and specialist websites, on a near quarter million quid deal.

It's not like you're buying a four year old Fiesta from Honest Dave's Totally Not Shonky Used Cars.
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Foz
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Re: Specialist Cars of Malton

Post by Foz »

SOR is fine but handing Over the V5 😂
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Jobbo
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Re: Specialist Cars of Malton

Post by Jobbo »

GG. wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 2:26 pm Its an interesting one that.

Not entirely my area of law, but I would have expected (subject to specific terms agreed between the dealer and the owner of the car - which may very well be how these things work) that the dealer would be selling the car as the agent and fiduciary of the owner. Any proceeds from that sale would be subject to a proprietary interest in favour of the seller (potentially via a constructive trust?).

It may be of little help if there are no funds left at all to meet claims but I'd be surprised (again, subject to T's & C's) if the seller had no better claim than an unsecured creditor to his pro rata share of the liquidation proceeds of the insolvent business.

Maybe there is case law coming to the opposite conclusion?
The dealer certainly sells as agent - as far as the buyer is concerned. They deal with the dealer alone and they are entitled to rely upon that. I think the fact that this only becomes an issue when there are no funds left is the problem here; you can argue all you want, on the basis of resulting trust or whatever, but if the money doesn't exist, there's nothing you're throwing good money after bad chasing it.

You're aware of the issue that the buyer does not get the usual implied terms on sale (fitness for purpose, satisfactory quality) when the dealer sells as disclosed agent for a private owner, aren't you? That one seems not to be widely known by car buyers, but it's certainly well known by the dealers.
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Re: Specialist Cars of Malton

Post by Nathan »

Simon - who was the salesman who was a PH regular who used to bang on all the time about how much they sold?

Believe sales stalled once he left but always felt it didn't add up
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Jimexpl
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Re: Specialist Cars of Malton

Post by Jimexpl »

JonMad wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 2:46 pm Well that looked to be a pretty comprehensive (post-purchase) inspection report :shock:
Ten years ago, when a 2.4S would have been £35k, other than the structural issue, none of the details would have been a problem; it would just be an old car with niggles.
It’s easy to check the spec of old Porsche, and to restore them to look right, and I expect that SCoM didn’t actually do any proper checks and just saw £.
My old boss, a classic car veteran, bought a 73 RS that turned out not to be. The only way of telling was removing the correctly stamped liquid metal from the body number hidden in the dash, uncovering a 2.4S body number from the same year.
We only found out because I was tracing the history, and a previous racer crashed the RS and transferred everything over to his 2.4 road car in the early 90’s. A subsequent individual had doctored the number to increase the value. We bought it from a Porsche main dealer in Europe!
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Orange Cola
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Re: Specialist Cars of Malton

Post by Orange Cola »

Jimexpl wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 4:07 pm
JonMad wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 2:46 pm Well that looked to be a pretty comprehensive (post-purchase) inspection report :shock:
Ten years ago, when a 2.4S would have been £35k, other than the structural issue, none of the details would have been a problem; it would just be an old car with niggles.
It’s easy to check the spec of old Porsche, and to restore them to look right, and I expect that SCoM didn’t actually do any proper checks and just saw £.
My old boss, a classic car veteran, bought a 73 RS that turned out not to be. The only way of telling was removing the correctly stamped liquid metal from the body number hidden in the dash, uncovering a 2.4S body number from the same year.
We only found out because I was tracing the history, and a previous racer crashed the RS and transferred everything over to his 2.4 road car in the early 90’s. A subsequent individual had doctored the number to increase the value. We bought it from a Porsche main dealer in Europe!
Was there any comeback on that or were you left with arguably the best replica going?
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Jimexpl
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Re: Specialist Cars of Malton

Post by Jimexpl »

Orange Cola wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 4:11 pm
Jimexpl wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 4:07 pm
JonMad wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 2:46 pm Well that looked to be a pretty comprehensive (post-purchase) inspection report :shock:
Ten years ago, when a 2.4S would have been £35k, other than the structural issue, none of the details would have been a problem; it would just be an old car with niggles.
It’s easy to check the spec of old Porsche, and to restore them to look right, and I expect that SCoM didn’t actually do any proper checks and just saw £.
My old boss, a classic car veteran, bought a 73 RS that turned out not to be. The only way of telling was removing the correctly stamped liquid metal from the body number hidden in the dash, uncovering a 2.4S body number from the same year.
We only found out because I was tracing the history, and a previous racer crashed the RS and transferred everything over to his 2.4 road car in the early 90’s. A subsequent individual had doctored the number to increase the value. We bought it from a Porsche main dealer in Europe!
Was there any comeback on that or were you left with arguably the best replica going?
Zero comeback. It was a great car. I’m sure loads of RS are rebodied, as they were raced and crashed in period.
We had another perfect RS which turned out to be an exact match of one that hadn’t moved in 25 years...
How about a £280k 356 speedster with a Porsche industrial pump engine in the back? It was unusual because we’d never had one with an original engine, only two digits on the casting gave it away.
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Jobbo
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Re: Specialist Cars of Malton

Post by Jobbo »

Nathan wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 4:04 pm Simon - who was the salesman who was a PH regular who used to bang on all the time about how much they sold?

Believe sales stalled once he left but always felt it didn't add up
markmullen, I believe.

During the course of my perusal of the 911 forum I've discovered a thread about 4-Star Classics too: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=113130

Not much detail there, but it does say mention down that it was a concession sale, so that links to the lack of protection I mentioned above.
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Re: Specialist Cars of Malton

Post by Nathan »

That's him thanks
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Ascender
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Re: Specialist Cars of Malton

Post by Ascender »

In that original thread alone there's two people who've had cars with him on SOR and the first they've known about a sale is when the DVLA notified them! And someone else getting a speeding ticket in London for a car which was supposed to be in the workshop in Yor

When you look at how 911 values have sky-rocketed over the last while, you can only imagine what sort of shenanigans are going on to try and make models look like more desirable ones. Would love to read more on that sort of thing.
Cheers,

Mike.
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Orange Cola
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Re: Specialist Cars of Malton

Post by Orange Cola »

Ascender wrote: Thu May 28, 2020 5:11 pmWhen you look at how 911 values have sky-rocketed over the last while, you can only imagine what sort of shenanigans are going on to try and make models look like more desirable ones. Would love to read more on that sort of thing.
It’s a hard one to spot too, as above these aren’t exactly new cars so they have been through a life already and parts have been changed for various reasons. Very, very few can be expected to be 100% original so it’s a great opportunity for anyone with the right connections to get hold of some parts and up-spec a car and sell it on to an unsuspecting buyer.
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Ascender
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Re: Specialist Cars of Malton

Post by Ascender »

Wow....
A friend of mine who lives abroad, had four 911's for sale with Specialist cars of Malton. In late October someone told me that they were on the edge of going bust, so I called my friend and told him that we needed to get his cars out of there. As he's not in the UK, I arranged for my transport guy to go and collect them on behalf of my friend , the only problem was that two of the cars weren't there and have never been found. My friend is down almost £200,000 ! I know of at least half a dozen people who are also out of pocket between £10,000 and £220,000.
And...
Highlights of those docs:
Of these 17 vehicles, eight are embroiled in this litigation and include a Ferrari F40, Porsche 2.7 RS Touring, Lamborghini Miura, Porsche 2.7RS Lightweight, Porsche 2.7RS Touring, Porsche 959 Komfort, Ferrari 365 GT 2+2 and an Alfa Romeo Montreal.

which, allegedly, went missing as follows:
During the evening hours of October 12, 2015 — less than one day before a hearing was to take place before the High Court in the United Kingdom concerning the ownership of these cars — the eight referenced automobiles were removed from Specialist Cars’ warehouse facility
Cheers,

Mike.
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Orange Cola
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Re: Specialist Cars of Malton

Post by Orange Cola »

Holy fuck :shock:

Seems to suggest the bloke knows how to get rid of them via the black market.
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