Coronavirus

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Mito Man
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Mito Man »

I had a lot of wind after having my vaccine :lol:
How about not having a sig at all?
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Broccers
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Broccers »

Whats going on with BJ's hair?
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Swervin_Mervin
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Swervin_Mervin »

duncs500 wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:55 pm
Swervin_Mervin wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:53 pm
integrale_evo wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:34 am

Meanwhile here studies have shown one dose of the AZ vaccine reduces hospitalisation from corona by 94% after 4 weeks, while Pfizer is 85%. Real world people who have had it, not just medical trials.

That’s if I’ve just understood what they said on the news on the radio correctly.
That's my understanding also.

I was reading another interesting piece last night on the issues of the "Nocebo effect", where people can experience physical side-effects from something even though they shouldn't, because they have a prior perception that they will. And this may be happening in EU countries now, particularly Italy, where medics are reporting severe side-effects from the AZ vaccine where we and other nations aren't.
TBF one of my colleagues had a pretty severe side effect, in that he basically had pretty harsh flu symptoms for 2-3 days after.
I don't think that's as severe as is being made out on the continent though. Most vaccines have a decent chance of making people feel a bit shite for a few days tbf as well.
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duncs500
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by duncs500 »

Well he certainly claimed it felt pretty awful. At least you know it's doing something though I guess. :)
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Swervin_Mervin
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Swervin_Mervin »

The wife said she felt the same as after her annual flu vaccine. She seemed to enjoy the slight temp it gave her as she's usually cold all the time :lol:
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integrale_evo
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by integrale_evo »

My sister, mum, dad, mrs, step daughter, mother in law and gran in law haven’t reported any side effects at all other than a slightly tender arm :lol:
Cheers, Harry
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Broccers
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Broccers »

Bit tender the day after an no illness for me. The flu jab on the other other hand does give you a minor cold.
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Explosive Newt
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Explosive Newt »

The reason you feel grim with a vaccine, as much one of the reasons with a virus or any infection is that your immune system has become activated. All those interleukins and cytokines are being released by the lymphocytes and raising your core temperature, making your blood vessels more leaky, triggering your bone marrow to make more white blood cells, etc etc.

If you feel properly crap after a vaccine, it means your immune system has switched itself on and is manufacturing the B and T cells that will recognise the bits of the vaccine (antigens) in future. The worse you feel, the greater the proliferation of white cells.

I've heard anecdotally that the feeling after the booster is often worse than that after the initial jab - your body has already established a white cell population that recognises the antigens in the vaccine, so when it sees them again, they start from a higher level and the immune response is even more brisk.

Probably, you'll have a bigger immune response (and feel worse) if
- you are younger (everything slows down for you old buggers)
- you have seen that antigen before (so people who might have had a covid infection, even asymptomatically)
Last edited by Explosive Newt on Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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McSwede
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by McSwede »

Explosive Newt wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:21 pm The reason you feel grim with a vaccine, as much one of the reasons with a virus or any infection is that your immune system has become activated. All those interleukins and cytokines are being released by the lymphocytes and raising your core temperature, making your blood vessels more leaky, triggering your bone marrow to make more white blood cells, etc etc.

If you feel properly crap after a vaccine, it means your immune system has switched itself on and is manufacturing the B and T cells that will recognise the bits of the vaccine (antigens) in future. The worse you feel, the greater the proliferation of white cells.
Always grateful if good info!!
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Explosive Newt
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Explosive Newt »

integrale_evo wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:34 am
Swervin_Mervin wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:30 pm Depressing state of affairs in the EU. Political leaders have managed to do a great job of panning the AZ vaccine to the extent that in Germany they've only used c100,000 of the c700,000 they've received. Italian medics advising people to not have it etc. In Germany, as they aren't told what they're going to get people just aren't turning up for their vaccine appointments because they don't want the AZ one. The cocks in charge could at least send the AZ vaccines to those countries that are happy to use them.

Meanwhile the Croatians have joined the likes of Hungary and ordered a load of the Sputnik vaccine. France is staring down the barrel of a long lockdown as cases are steady at c20k/day.

So that EU unity that was the basis of the delayed procurement process is really working out for them now :roll:
Meanwhile here studies have shown one dose of the AZ vaccine reduces hospitalisation from corona by 94% after 4 weeks, while Pfizer is 85%. Real world people who have had it, not just medical trials.

That’s if I’ve just understood what they said on the news on the radio correctly.
In terms of the hierarchy of medical evidence, we would put a trial above observational ('real-world') data as a trial is a controlled environment where you can match patient populations and eliminate anything confounding. In this case, this observational data is counfounded by other variables, e.g. the effects of the country going into lockdown, some populations getting a higher number of vaccines than others, etc. In a trial, you have half the population on placebo, so you know that those confounding effects happen to both groups and their effect is minimised or eliminated. So while the 'real world' data is good, it has to be taken with a bit of a pinch of salt. It does give us the ability to compare the two vaccines head to head though, which is nice.

That said, my university has not covered itself in glory with its conduct of the AstraZeneca trial, as they made several changes and alterations during the study which means that the data isn't very 'clean'. They started with it as a single dose study, then changed their mind and made it dose and booster partway through. This meant that there was a mixture of different time delays between doses and some who only received the single dose: so instead of one uniform population of people with a single dose interval (like the Pfizer one), you have a heterogenous series of populations who you cannot necessarily compare directly with each other.

The continental skepticism about Oxford-AZ isn't unfounded as there isn't much trial data for older people to show its efficacy and what data there is would suggest it is less efficacious than the competitors. It might be just as good or even better but there isn't trial data to support that.

When people ask me which is best, the honest answer is that I don't know. None of the trials are really directly comparable with each other.
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GG.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by GG. »

Broccers wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:06 pm
Rich B wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:02 pm Looks pretty much as you'd expect.
Looks pretty wank considering the miracle vaccine is in all the vulnerable already.
I'd be surprised (outside of a new significant 'event' such as the widespread circulation of a variant to which the current jabs do not provide immunity) that this timetable will stick to be honest.

If ICU admissions/deaths fall to negligible numbers of the course of the next 6 weeks, as they would be expected to given the vaccines that have been administered to vulnerable groups, you would think the release of restrictions could be brought forward (they're supposed to be based on data not dates of course...)

By end of March they're expecting all 50 year olds to have had their first vaccination. Given that the over-50s cover 98% of those who die and c. 80% of all those admitted to hospital so it would seem difficult to argue you couldn't meet family members inside for another month, particularly given you'd be meeting your parents/grandparents who had already had the vaccine and were therefore at very low risk...

I guess there may be the argument at that point that we may as well wait 4 more weeks until the risk is essentially all but eliminated - slightly ironic that various European countries at much lower vaccination levels are already opening restaurants, etc.
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Simon
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Simon »

I think the over 50 target is end of April, not March...
The artist formerly known as _Who_
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Coaster1
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Coaster1 »

I just want a haircut 😕
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dinny_g
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by dinny_g »

I think that’s all pretty fair and balanced. There’s always folk who’ll want things to move quicker but it does seem like a Once and for all approach.
JLv3.0 wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:26 pm I say this rarely Dave, but listen to Dinny because he's right.
Rich B wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 1:57 pm but Dinny was right…
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Swervin_Mervin
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Swervin_Mervin »

Simon wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:48 pm I think the over 50 target is end of April, not March...
Mid April is the new target
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Matty
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Matty »

Coaster1 wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:19 pm I just want a haircut 😕
Same...and it looks like we've got to wait about another 7 weeks. I've got a proper mullet going on.
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dinny_g
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by dinny_g »

Real insight to the mind of my 14 year old...

“What??? Why are they opening the barbers 5 weeks after the schools?? That makes no sense!!”

I told him he should have let me cut it at Christmas... :lol:
JLv3.0 wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:26 pm I say this rarely Dave, but listen to Dinny because he's right.
Rich B wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 1:57 pm but Dinny was right…
V8Granite
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by V8Granite »

dinny_g wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:55 am Real insight to the mind of my 14 year old...

“What??? Why are they opening the barbers 5 weeks after the schools?? That makes no sense!!”

I told him he should have let me cut it at Christmas... :lol:
Man buns for all 😎

Dave!
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Rich B
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Rich B »

I've just gone for a grade 0 all over - no haircut issues for me...#baldy
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DeskJockey
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by DeskJockey »

Rich B wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:17 am I've just gone for a grade 0 all over - no haircut issues for me...#baldy
All over?
---
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