Coronavirus

[Simon]

LOOKING FORWARD TO GETTING MY 5G GATES TRACKING CHIP INJECTED NEXT WEEK.

Get in line mofo. NHS workers and 80-odd year olds first. It's crucial that we start tracking the movements of the oldest OAPs first - they're bound to be up to no good.

Bloody commies. GIVE MEH MAH INJECSHION!

[Ascender]

Obviously "Thalidomide" is trending today on the back of this news.

Chemtrails are also still a big thing it turns out and very much to blame for covid & keeping the sheeple in line etc.

I really worry about the world my kids are going to grow up in sometimes.

[Mito Man]

I can imagine the compensation adverts on tv in a few years time...

[Broccers]

What do we think - approved as safe for rollout next week...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55145696

Good if its not crap, proves the UK on its own can move faster than say the EU who arent even meeting until end of this month.

MHRA are rigorous.

In the past the UK would have been seen as the EU lead Health Authority and others would have followed suit. Not now.

Are you sure they aren't following suit?

[Broccers]

Another thing that really is getting on my nerves, 3 million ltd company owners like me getting f all money and yet self employed getting max pay outs if their income is down by less than a few percent. BJ as recently as yesterday still doesn't get the distinction between the two. At least people aren't topping themselves...... oh they are.

[Ascender]

Thankfully I've been able to keep working this year, but I know quite a few contractors who aren't so lucky and thanks to the recent IR35 nonsense, no longer get benefits of being self-employed, but are also now not considered employed enough to qualify for anything other than universal credit.

[Sundayjumper]

...3 million ltd company owners like me getting f all money...

And after all those years of tax avoidance paying yourself in dividends, boo-fcuking-hoo

So pocket your furlough grant and your bounceback loan and stop moaning.

[duncs500]

There's no one size fits all answer of course, but there's certainly plenty of people who have been minimising their tax bill for years. If they weren't smart enough to tuck some of the tax savings away for a rainy day they don't have a lot of sympathy.

[Sundayjumper]

Hang on, didn’t broccers already brag about getting a bounce back loan and putting it into premium bonds ? Clearly not struggling.

[Simon]

Yes.

[Jobbo]

Hang on, didn’t broccers already brag about getting a bounce back loan and putting it into premium bonds ? Clearly not struggling.

Premium b0wned.

[Carlos]

I can see it being a double whammy for small ltd company directors although SundayJumper doesn't agree, with corporation tax at 20% and divi's at 7.5% then 32.5% they would be paying similar levels of tax&ni as someone employed or a soletrader but unlikely to have access to any significant non-repayable covid support. The sting in the tale will be the budget next year when i can see the tax on dividends increasing to help cover the costs of the schemes those directors couldn't benefit from.

[Gwaredd]

And after all those years of tax avoidance paying yourself in dividends, boo-fcuking-hoo

So pocket your furlough grant and your bounceback loan and stop moaning.

This. The amount of gloating dividend business people I've come across over the years bragging how little tax they pay as 'the business makes no money or runs at a loss ' and how I should just do it too, aren't so smug now. Pay your tax. It makes the World turn.

[GG.]

Ummm. Note sure you understand how this works. If the business makes no money and you pay no tax (corporation or tax on dividends remitted to you as shareholder) then you have received no income from it. If you've paid yourself an income out of net profit rather than dividends then you'd pay income tax on that.

Not sure who would be gloating about having paid no tax on income or dividends as they've made no money...

I'm totally fine with business owners paying a lower rate of tax on income derived from dividends on a trading business - they shoulder the risk of the business folding and incentivising enterprise through lower rates of tax is perfectly legitimate. The people who are committing 'tax avoidance' are those who pay income into a shell company and extract via dividends - generally not the same people who are owners of SMEs.

[GG.]

There's no one size fits all answer of course, but there's certainly plenty of people who have been minimising their tax bill for years. If they weren't smart enough to tuck some of the tax savings away for a rainy day they don't have a lot of sympathy.

Its pointless generalising. If 'minimising your tax bill' means you pay tax at the level applicable to dividends but your business still only makes enough to pay you a net £17k a year after such tax then the 'minimisation' doesn't mean you have money for a rainy day.

We went through all this with Rev!

[Gwaredd]

The people who are committing 'tax avoidance' are those who pay income into a shell company and extract via dividends - generally not the same people who are owners of SMEs.

Maybe that's what they were on about then, but I've heard it many times over the years. "You should go limited mate and draw dividends. We pay next to fuck all tax!"

Nah, I'm good thanks. Enjoy your foodbank Christmas dinner

[GG.]

Why not though, Gwarredd - if you take the risk of running your own business then establish a limited company. Why operate as a sole trader when it could result in personal bankruptcy? That's just prudence, not gaming the system and you shouldn't feel guilty about it...

[Explosive Newt]

I'm in the weird position of not knowing what to do about the coronavirus vaccine. Even though as an NHS worker I'll be getting it before even the oldest fogey on this forum (until Beany gets admitted to a care home, that is). I've emailed the Oxford vaccine trial to ask - was I given placebo, in which case will they vaccinate me rather than the NHS roll-out? Was I given the real thing, in which case will they give me a second booster dose? Or should I take the Pfizer vaccine offered on the NHS instead... I doubt anyone has any idea on the safety (let alone efficacy) of mixing the different viruses but the default response in a medical setting is to not let you do something rather than giving you the green light.

I emailed them yesterday (along, presumably, with every other volunteer) and am awaiting their reply...

[duncs500]

There's no one size fits all answer of course, but there's certainly plenty of people who have been minimising their tax bill for years. If they weren't smart enough to tuck some of the tax savings away for a rainy day they don't have a lot of sympathy.

Its pointless generalising. If 'minimising your tax bill' means you pay tax at the level applicable to dividends but your business still only makes enough to pay you a net £17k a year after such tax then the 'minimisation' doesn't mean you have money for a rainy day.

We went through all this with Rev!

This is pointless arguing. Of course there are exceptions. I can only spreak from personal experience of the industry I work in, where all the people benefitting from this opportunity are earning more than everyone else and paying less tax. I'm ok with that, more power to them, but they must (and most I speak to do) accept that they've had years of cream, so shouldn't cry foul now that the system they've been working in is not now supporting them in the same way. In fact, the very reason their rate is higher is that it acknowledges that they don't share the same protection as someone in full time employment on PAYE tax.

[GG.]

It isn't pointless though. There are 45,000 SMEs in the UK and they make an average of £8,000 profit.

On that basis the people you are talking about are statistically the minority and not typical. I wouldn't base any argument around the support to small businesses using them as an example.